Finally got to play this map last night. Am i safe to assume that there wont be changes made to the map until week 3 matches are played out?

ps. it's a good map, just need bit more work!

In my opinion it wouldn't be fair to anyone to make changes during the season week unless it's a glaring issue. That way it's the same for everyone!

Thank you!

I have to ask though, where/what do you think needs more work? And why? The why is very important.

I'll tell you next week :D.

Iots says

I'll tell you next week :D.

Tbh sooner would be better because I can start putting work in long before publishing it. I have other stuff that needs to be done as well and I want to make sure that I can manage any updates as long before the next mineral week is due as possible :)

Can't find it on the workshop, link doesn't work, doesn't show up in search.

Sardine says

Can't find it on the workshop, link doesn't work, doesn't show up in search.

Link works fine, you need to be logged in to steam in your browser. I checked this a few days ago when Pelargir was asking about it.

Edit: can some admin please clean up the over9000 posts? Edge is great!

MasterG says

Sardine says

Can't find it on the workshop, link doesn't work, doesn't show up in search.

Link works fine, you need to be logged in to steam in your browser. I checked this a few days ago when Pelargir was asking about it.

Edit: can some admin please clean up the over9000 posts? Edge is great!

I've checked it again with Bonage and looked like it still doesn't work. Being logged in or not matters not.

Hmm weird it works fine for me. Steam sucks apparently. I'll try to get it fixed as soon as I can. I'm stuck on an island with no proper internet atm.

Edit, apparently there were new terms of service for the workshop the preventet the mod from being fully published. I accepted the new terms and updated the link in the OP to not include the search term. Should work fine now as long as you're logged in. Not sure if it works without being logged, but feel free to try. If it still doesn't work there's nothing more I can do for now.

MasterG says

Hmm weird it works fine for me. Steam sucks apparently. I'll try to get it fixed as soon as I can. I'm stuck on an island with no proper internet atm.

Edit, apparently there were new terms of service for the workshop the preventet the mod from being fully published. I accepted the new terms and updated the link in the OP to not include the search term. Should work fine now as long as you're logged in. Not sure if it works without being logged, but feel free to try. If it still doesn't work there's nothing more I can do for now.

Works now. Thanks.

Hey guys!

I'm having a bit of trouble deciding between two ways to "fix" the problem with being able to shoot the Mineral Processing RT from outside the doorway in Connection.

I have 3 different options that will work in different ways.

Option 1:


Move the RT as shown in the image. Breaks LOS to the RT from the Connection entrance and keeps everything else as it is in the current build. However this RT spot can get very crowded, and an Onos won't be able to move between the RT and the south wall. This option requires the least amount of work.

Option 2:


Leave the RT in its current position and move the entrance from Connection to where it used to be and moving the Crate to block LOS from said entrance to kill Eggs(without altering where the entry from Connection to Generators is). Another thing to note is that the "new" "old" entrance won't be like it used to be before Connection was moved since the LONG shitty stairs won't be there anymore. This requires more work, but not more than what can be done in half a day. This option also gets rid of the U-turn in connection and can make the entire location more roomy, with more cover and just a better flow in general. It also gets rid of the Hive LOS from the current entry door and adds an ARC spot for Marines to use from Connection. NOTE: Nevermind how the vent seems to be connected, it was just a quick edit of the image.

Option 3:


Move the RT to the top right corner of the room and move the crate in the room to block LOS from the Pump Stations entrance to the RT after being moved. This option is also a minimal amount of work. However the Hive LOS from the Connection entrance to Mineral Processing will increase with this option unless we want 2 crates? I really don't want any crates(because they don't really make sense in the room) but there is pretty much no way around having at least one in there.


Personally I like option 2 more because it probably will provide better movement flow through Connection(no more U-turn) and pretty much keeps Mineral Processing as is except RT and Hive LOS from Connection. It also makes marines able to ARC from Connection without being OP, and the need to push further into the room to be able to shoot both the Hive and RT.

However I need to ask what you guys want, because you're the ones who will be playing the map in the season and ultimately have a slightly better understanding of the game that I do. All opinions will be taken into consideration as long as there is at least some degree of reasoning behind WHY you like one option over another. Not trying to be rude, but opinions are nothing without reasons for them. See it as an encouragement to give better feedback!

Thanks for your time!

I am for option 2 because of said reasons and also the mineral processing vent could be used better then

Keep in mind that I didn't plan on connecting the vent to the Connection corridor even if it looks like it on my quick photoshopping.

I prefere the options 3 and 1, for me the 2nd is not viable because the corridor is too long and tortuous.

Hyste says

I prefere the options 3 and 1, for me the 2nd is not viable because the corridor is too long and tortuous.

I wasn't a fan of this solution either, but MasterG sent me what the new corridor looks like, and it's actually quite alright. I didn't want turns, corridors, etc etc.. but it's actually open. The layout seems bad, but it's almost a room.

Maybe you could post this here G. to let them see how solution 2 would look like if that's the one chosen (he built it on another spark file)

I'm all for option 2. it looks much nicer imo.

Ok here goes, ingame screenshots of my testing of a redesign of connection:

Commander view:


Commander view with minimap:


Marine view:




ARC spot on the bottom of the short stairs:


Fastest timing from Surface(going through Security, Automation, Generators) to Mineral Processing is about 30 seconds. Same as going to Drill Site. I feel like this is pretty good. Although the corridor mostly towards Mineral Processing could probably use something to use as cover for skulks on the floor somewhere.

Thoughts?

Lower the RT and have a small box to block LOS to it, if its even needed at that point, lowering it (much like cross in summit) would atleast mean you cant snipe the cyst; which is the main reason the thing dies.

If this change to connection is approved I don't think lowering it will be necessary, but I can place the cyst in such a way that it's harder to take down from a distance. Can explain more later i anyone has any specific questions.

Also going to widen the "doorway" into the hive a bit to help out marines a bit in their pushes.

I did like the "C" shaped design for the "Connection" room before (or the way it currently plays) because it is a little more Marine friendly and provides a little buffer. The way it looks in your test/update would appear to give an Alien advantage with that opening next to the stairs that would make it easier to escape from. Then again, I guess the trade-off is that ARCing is more viable from this design.

loMe says

I did like the "C" shaped design for the "Connection" room before (or the way it currently plays) because it is a little more Marine friendly and provides a little buffer. The way it looks in your test/update would appear to give an Alien advantage with that opening next to the stairs that would make it easier to escape from. Then again, I guess the trade-off is that ARCing is more viable from this design.

yup, that's the idea. although the initial idea of redesigning this was to make it less marines friendly. All the games we've seen so far (week 3), marines have hold that super easily, and it's supposed to be alien territory. So that makes sense in a way that it's more alien friendly as a room in solution 2, but you now have also the possibility to arc.

I wasn't convinced at first, but I vote for solution 2 now.

I guess the main issue with Min Pro was :
. easily snipable RT/cyst
. room design alright for both sides but hive room (not Min Pro, the kind of alcove where the hive is) too strong.
. no viable arcing position.

So now, this seems all fixed.

And also, Ixian did raise a good point during his cast about the vents above the hive. Maybe they should be a little narrower. So that you can be unoticed, but you have to be careful not to be shot in there if they see you go in. Because right now, it's a super safe place, and it shouldn't be.

I agree about the vents above the hive, they are too strong indeed. I can look into it later tonight when I get home or tomorrow?

Maybe giving the hive a bit more room in there could be benefitial for both teams, widening the alcove north/south?

There is still a tradeoff for aliens with the new corridor that marines can see very far, actually all the way from gen, if something is coming and good amounts of cover for aliens. That way marines can prepare more and hold back in gen. This could also maie the vent more useful for aliens to push marines out of gen. Not sure if true, but that is part of the general intention.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, keep it coming!

This post doesn't take into account what others have already said because i haven't looked at any of the other posts prior to writing this.. soo yeah. The little things that i've noticed.

Mineral Processing RT shouldn't be able to get hit by outside of the hive, that should be moved.
Mineral hive can be shot from just about anywhere, can be shot from Pump with an lmg, can be shot from connection and from the back of the RT.
You can shoot the production hive through the vent as a marine.
Marine's shouldn't be able to get into automation vent and go all the way to mineral process. Probably best that they can't get into automation vent at all.
The vent in generator is a joke, a gorge can go up and just bile bomb down all day and not have to worry.
In security i feel as though aliens shouldn't be able to see you through the glass to just run away the second they spot you coming down the stairs.
I find Drill site needs to be worked on, it's a massive room with barely any hive coverage. Marine can get have a huge advantage in this room, can go all the way up the stairs, can be down under the hive, too much.

n'stuff.

edit: read some above posts, looking forward to playing the updates.

Thank you Syknik this is very good feedback! I will look into most of it and see what I can do. I agree with most of your stuff, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to change things too much during the season. And these things will take quite some time to fix(not all, but specifically Drill Site) and I won't be able to have a proper update for everything out long enough before the next season week.

However the vent stuff is fairly easy to do something about. In Automation I know exactly how to keep marines out of them. Not sure what I could do about Gen vents, so if you have the time to take some screens and add some red circles where you feel they would be better placed and not super OP that would be great!

Thanks again for your elaborate post, it helps me and ultimately everyone who will play the map in the future!

Hey! Just a quick video I did after tonights NSL cast showing the new changes that are going into Mineral after all the week 3 matches have been played,

http://www.hitbox.tv/video/480444/description

I may have missed a few things in the video, so a full changelog in text is coming when the update is live.

Feedback of course welcome as always!

Disclaimer: I like this map, and I don’t want to see any drastic changes to the layout but I feel some adjustments need to be made.
Below how I see the map is currently split.


There’s only one constant in this map, and that’s marine start so let’s go with that.
First value is that RT’s that marines can achieve and hold 4 RT’s with minimum effort, while at the same time protecting their base due to how the map flows. See the silly looking picture below


Now in respect to the “Marine RTs”, only way this should be ‘ok’ in the sake of balance if those RT’s would be somewhat easy to clear out. But because of how the map flows the naturals are pretty hard to actually keep down, the only RT that’s moderately simple is Production. Security is most often kept alive simply by your marines leaving the base/pressuring Pump Control, while Lockers is a death trap for aliens, even more now that the power node is moved to Stasis.

Compare this to “Alien RTs”,
- with Drill Site your naturals can be pressured from Loading Bay/Break Room, which either forces you do defend(which makes your res biting suffer), or keeps you on 1 RT(while marines have 3 easily defendable RT’s).
- with Mineral Processing you have options, you can either continue down to Production or try to battle for Pump Control, in either case you have 2 relatively safe RT’s due to Generator.

Now in either of these occasions, simple lane blocking and/or pressure doesn’t account for marines to be able to cap Transport/Generator/PumpControl themselves, which is very much possible and makes it even harder for aliens to remain in a good position in the RT count compared to marines.
If you compare this to ns_tram, it would be equivalent of moving Platform RT to HUB, and even then Ore/Mezz(alien naturals with respective hives) are still much easier to hold than Transport/Generator on this map(with the new build Generator is prolly ok!).

Problem areas:
- Drill/Mineral hives, both hives are easy to hold with lifeforms but hard without, there was new changes made in the new build need to see how those help, but in general teams that are able to lock aliens to their hive with tech advantage still have a hard time closing the game, and even more so it’s a bit too hard to finish games earlier as well due to this even if they don’t as high tech advantage.
In addition it is easy to be blocked into your hive without a way out. This is a problem more on Drill Site, than Mineral Processing.

- Pump Station, the choke point for cyst lines to either hive location, way too easy to clear and hold as marine.

- Pump Control, the RT is way too far from the hive, prone to the simple pressure from Break Room/Loading Bay chokepoint.

- Transport, the RT has same problem as Pump Control, and unlike Generators there is no vent for easy access to defend it.

- Lockers, the RT is ridiculously easy to hold, you have no way out if you’re chipped, so you are forced to hope the marine sucks, the old power node at least made it possible for you to safely exit when you heard marines approaching.

- Loading Bay/Break Room, it’s too easy to pressure both naturals if aliens have Drill Site hive.

Suggestions,
- Lockers RT needs to be more alien favorable, either move the RT to the other room or add cover for aliens to be able to leave the hallway alive.

- Transport RT needs to be moved somewhere else, or the whole area needs to be redone so it’s less of a “huge ramp with big boxes”, also a vent towards storage or past it could be an alternative(from Drill Site).

- Pump Station, make it a double corridor so it’s not so easy to deny cysts and higher lifeforms(and gorges) aren’t forced go so close to the doorway to Pump Control (ie. imagine if theres a PG there).


- Pump Control/BreakRoom/LoadingBay, all of these are so connected that the dynamic needs to be broken somehow so it's not so easy for marines to dictate the rounds by controlling this one area. If you address other areas and limit the routes a bit, it might be a nudge in the right direction.

- Security, I don’t see why there is space under the stairs from base to the RT, it’s more of an annoyance to already alien sided room.


End note, all of this really concludes to what kind of map do you want this to be, i see that most rooms are "alien favored" but the RT locations make it a marine sided map, yet it's hard to finish games due to hive rooms being rather difficult with lifeforms on the field. I know i forgot something but cba reading through all of this again.

Iots, fantastic feedback! Thank you for taking the time to do this. I wish it would have come sooner:) I have read it 4 times, but still need some time to digest it all. I will have a reply at a later time.

I already have ideas starting to form though. Also, I would love it if other people have the time to chip in on this for a healthy discussion!

Would've written earlier but away for easter and was busy yesterday being disapointed by NIP. FUCKING FRENCH. nuff said.

Titan too stronk

Hello again everyone! I've been working a lot on different parts around Mineral the last couple of weeks to give it an update that will improve the map overall. It's still not quite there, but it's starting to show some real promise(I hope?).

I've taken in to consideration all the feedback that I have received and made changes in a manner that compromises between different views. In other words, not everyone who has given me feedback are getting exactly what they want, because what is better for the map counts more than one person's opinion.

Disclaimer: I'm sorry for doing this update now, I would like to be able to do it between the season weeks 3 and 6 according to the NSL schedule of when matches are to be played. What I didn't realize was that a lot of matches seem to be played at other dates etctec. However, before complaining at least read the change log under and refer to the new minimap. Your strats should still work perfectly fine! I may also have forgotten something in the changelog below, but if something was left out it probably is insignificant.

I recently posted an update video. Most of what's in it is still accurate, but there have been made a few changes to the things mentioned in the video as well as some other new stuff. But enough rambling, here is the change log for Mineral beta version 3.30:

- Redesigned Connection(between Gen and MinPro), giving it a new entrance to Mineral Processing. Enhances game flow through the area and provides aliens with some better cover, an ARC spot for marines and does not allow the MinPro RT to be shot from outside the room. Also requires marines to push more into the room to shoot the hive.

- Widened the hive area in Mineral Processing(north/south) to give marines a better change in pushes.

- Removed vents above the tech point in Mineral Processing.

- Re-positioned Generators RT to make it more viable as a first natural drop for aliens when spawning in Mineral Processing.

- Made vent between Transfer and East Path easier to jump into for marines(from Transfer).

- Moved power node in Lockers and moved the RT in to the actual room.

- Made a new power node and location name between Drill Site and Storage, is now named "Repair". Also redesigned the area!

- Redesigned vent from Drill Site to Repair, entrance is now above and behind the hive in Drill Site(screenshot further down!). Vent is now faster and less tedious to use.

- Added some hive cover(grates) in Drill Site as well as switching out most railings in the room to plated ones, giving lower lifeforms better cover on the ground.

- Moved Repair, Storage and Transport slightly westwards.

- Slightly redesigned the size and flow of movement through Loading Bay. Area should play mostly like before, but entrances towards Break Room and Transport have "changed" a little bit.

- Moved Pump Control a tiny bit north. No major timing differences but puts it a bit closer to the hive locations in Drill Site and Mineral Processing(4 cysts).

- Moved Transport RT to Storage and moved the Storage power node north to compensate.

- Moved vent entrance in Transport(towards Loading Bay) south a little to compensate for the slight redesign in Loading.

- Added from Repair, entering Transport where the RT used to be, and opened up the wall in to said area.

- Added an extra "cyst lane" in Pump Station to help aliens keep the cyst connection between Drill Site and Mineral Processing. Also avoids the location being a super OP choke point for marines to abuse.

- Blocked off the underside of the escalators in Security, no longer possible for anyone to go under the stairs.

- Moved vent entrance in Production slightly down, no longer possible to shoot a potential hive from this vent.

- Moved vent entrances in Automation down on the wall, should no longer be possible for marines to enter these. At least not alone.


Any of the changes stated above should not be a HUGE game changer for any of the teams, but a lot of the changes made were to favor aliens a bit more in certain areas. The general flow of the map remains mostly the same, the only exception is the slight change of flow through Loading Bay and Connection.

Guide to the new vent in Drill Site:




New layout:



Again, I'm sorry about this update coming now, but because week 6 official start date is just over one week away I need to at least give the teams playing their matches from the 19th a chance to study the new changes. Again, none of this is a game changer. Just smaller and larger balance fixes based on what I've seen in games and the feedback received. Thanks for your understanding!

Changes brought by this B3.30 showcased in this video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mft2Myx_Xvw