So yeah, what is your opinion on the issue of cl_cmdrate and fps_max ceilings. Tane suggested that FPS 200 shouldn't be allowed because it will show smooth game and increase LMG speed, and I assume his comp. cannot render 200 FPS (and picmip won't be allowed). I think this is a bit false reasoning since higher FPS is always bound to give better performance. If we follow this reasoning also 121 should be banned, because some people can't reach it, thus giving better LMG speed.

Personally I don't care either way.

Make it fps_max 100, probably meant to be played that way and everyone cant get 200 anyway.

I don't care, as long as fps_max cannot be changed during a played round.

Lock fps_max 125 for both teams. It gives smoothness and it doesn't go imba on the fire rate.

I can use 200fps or 111fps but it looks choppy with the combo of fpsrate+refreshrate (111/200fps+120hz = gay).

If I could find some override to force the refresh rate to something that fits the fps rate I'd use 200fps.

create a poll for it. I used to play with 100 fps all the time and then changed to 111 fps. And I think it´s a big difference. For me 100 fps max would be fine.

tbh noone likes stuttering lmg's so limiting 100fps will kill ns for sure.

I find it hilarious though that especially Tane is suggesting to block stuff, what is wrong with you?

I guess this is kind of coming from the same source as the picmip stuff? ..

I mean picmip was actually lowering the games needed resources so u got an advantage by making ur game worse than needed!

fps_max is the other way i got an advantage cause my PC CAN gimme 200 fps! it is 2010 this game is so old if u still dont have a sys that can play 200 frames (in a way u like it <-- for dugi) then dont make others pay!

I am sorry for sounding ignorant but i like my 200fps on rineside and i want to keep em .. it is annoying enough for me to have tochange to cmdrate 150 in officials instead of my 205!

let´s just ask the dev to spend 2 hours on ns1 and fix that damn fps thing. Big joke tbh that there is an exploit like that.


" tbh noone likes stuttering lmg's so limiting 100fps will kill ns for sure. "

oh I played with 100 fps for like 3 years ...

frG, actually he just suggested to ban 200 FPS not 100 FPS.

I don't think limiting FPS below 125 makes any sense because many players have 120Hz screens today. Higher is debatable, because of the LMG ROF. Its kinda like Jetpacks in 1.04.

There is only one reason to ban 200fps, and that is to remove the super little faster firing lmg advantage, therefore 111 and 125 should be banned too, hence i said limiting it to 100fps.

gobot, not sure then, i guess its a combination of high rates and 100fps.

I am sorry for sounding ignorant but i like my 200fps on rineside and i want to keep em .. it is annoying enough for me to have tochange to cmdrate 150 in officials instead of my 205!

You didn't know your cl_cmdrate is really 100/101 and not 205 if you play with fps_max 200? Pretty much same that I´m playing with fps_max 100 and cl_cmdrate 50/51. Why?! because HL1 engine is locked to use rate 10 000 and that isn't enough.

And cmdrate is always same as fps (you can use "cmdrate 99999999999" if you like but it wont send no more than your fps), if it's less than your fps or cant send same amount data it will cut it to half and will duplicate your packets. You can test it if you know how to read net_graph.

If ENSL has taken line where they limit player freedom over userconfig, they shouldn't just stop to gl_picmic3. In this case I presume that about 90% players use 111 fps or higher, but only minority of players can handle 200 fps. It is obvious that these few players do get advantage over those who can't use 200 fps. In my personal opinion, this advantage is far greater than gl_picpim3 could provide. Not to mention that anyone could use gl_picmic3, but in this case use of 200fps is limited to player personal wealth.

I don't mind limiting it to say 150fps max, but I don't see that it's a big deal either.

LMG might be a little faster on 200 fps (I haven't tested it properly), but the biggest advantage is the super fast JPing. With JPs already being a bit overpowered in 3.2, it might be good to at least limit the FPS abuse.

Really, I don't care though. I can't even get 111 fps stable, but I survive.

lets make some facts

200fps
20 bullets per sec

dps
w0 200hp
w1 220hp
w2 240hp
w3 260hp

111fps
18.5 Bullets per sec
dps
w0 185hp
w1 203.5hp
w2 222hp
w3 240.5hp

timedemp demo1.dem

cl_picmip 0
3409 frames 4.386 seconds 777.283 fps

gl_picmip 3
3409 frames 4.320 seconds 789.162 fps



1.5% more fps

yeah in that matter ill have to go against 200... mainly because most people (me included) cant use it. so its a massive advantage (see multis comparison) - it is like having an extra free weapon upgrade, with 200fps w2 doing same amount of damage as an fps_max 111 w3, and 200 fps w3 DPS can-not be reached.

also the jp reacts twice as fast, unbeatable dodging.

i wouldent stop the use of 111/125 fps though, as the majority of people can reach that.

there is no reason to limit the fps.
u have the same rof with 20fps
and the difference between 200 and 58 is 2.5%

this ist just a bad try to justify tanes picmip abuse.

No point in testing high fps with picmip

Its different story with low-end computers

As for fps just make a limit somewhere

lol multivac I want u to see playing with 20 fps.
Highest allowed frame rate should just be 100 fps. So Nobody should have any bigger advantage or disadvantage. I think the whole discussion is pointless anyway: Ns2 is about to come out and the fps thing is just some crap which never got fixed by the developers and never will be.

PS: and pls dont come along with 76 or 67 fps now (dunno which was the right one). Even when it makes u shoot a little faster (for fps less then 100) it´s still worse than 100 fps ( in my opinion, and I played on fps less than 100 for like 4 years)

gobot l2r "the difference between 200 and 58 is 2.5%"

200fps is ok.
use it if you can.
and if you cannot - blame yourself.
not others who CAN and who ARE using it...

I'm using mouse with less dpi than "that guy", but I do not ask him not to use it...

i play for years with 30 fps and I never see ppl worried about my fps they say get a new comp so u can play competetive ! , ok i have a new comp and I can play with 400 fps all the time , so now i need to limit my fps because others dont have new comp ?

this is a joke ? blaming fps ? blame conection (100 ping vs 30 always fun) rates and other more important stuff

multi get serious.

while 200 fps shoots quite like 58, its JPing abilities are WAY BETTER.

jping with 20 fps is impossible.

and BH at 58 is hard to. i played 58 for a long time and as soon as i moved to 125/111 my BH improved immensly.

and dez, we cant limit connections. people cant move to germany to get good pings. but the FPS part is just unfair towards people who cant afford better computers.

and ive spent ages trying to get 200 fps... just ask aA... and if i cant get it by overclocking and cant afford a new comp do i deserve to have a weaker marine? geez.

Ahh..the usual, sweet hypocrisy..

I play with 76 maxfps, because I can't get steady 111 or 125, and as you can see in this thread I'm not the only one.
According to your logic, necros, everyone should play with 76fps from my point of view.

I don't care tbh. I see players with 200fps who fail and I see players with less fps owning. Can't be that big of a difference, just like all the other "tweakable" things.

why the fuck are you all talking about this?
think a bit...
lets compare competitive gaming to olympics:
- playing NS is like running a marathon
- if u apply in the marathon u need to be fit, in NS: u have to practise a lot and have a fit PC to play on, mouse, monitor etc...
- limiting FPS just because u dont have a PC to run the game as u wish is the following on a marathon: u apply on a marathon with having only 1 leg, so u limit the other competitors to just use their single leg

ridiculous...
competitive gaming is not marathon nor olympics but that quality should be the goal, in NS or in any game
if you dont agree just dont use the 'competitive' word ever on ENSL
btw it has disappered from the main page, i guess the noobs fear such words and we need 'popularity' (what is almost activity) to keep things together

Please, stop putting words to my mouth. Didn't your mum teach you any manners? Irrelevant as it is, I haven't used gl_picmic3 after majority of players voted against it. I bet you have seen massive difference in my aim! Such an advantage it gave me! Now that is clear could we say in topic, please?

First, I like to say that total equality isn't possible but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be more equal. Most of your arguments can be countered by this.

There has been arguments that fps shouldn't be limited because this is advantage that some players have archived? I see player's life outside of ns irrelevant and therefore this argument doesn't answer to the problem. I like also point out, that couldn't we say almost about everything that someone has archived it? Some nerd has used hours to get aimbot working in ns, should we allow this because he has "archived" it?

We should try to find focal point and I think that is 125 fps. I think most of players can reach it and therefore ENSL would take one step closer to equality.

By the way, I'm more than aware that 200 fps doesn't give advantage that is compared to skill but again this doesn't mean we should allow it. My main motive for this debate is really selfish one. I just like to illustrate how fucking hypocrite fucks are you.

bonk: http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97790

cba to read it but it seems the only major difference by significantly larger fps is jetpack acceleration

I suppose since they aren't in that thread I should also post:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7928/lmgrofal1.gif

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6317/pistolrofkj2.gif

That was obvious ziggy, we all knew that (if you're not new).

Miglecz, that's an useless analogy because it includes a lot of conceptual assumptions. Olympics is something where hardware doesn't make much of a difference. Better analogy would be the jetpack of 1.04. Just "because my computer can do it" is not a valid argument, because you could apply that to anything.

And the "competitive" word you are looking for, was in the link to the new player article. So it not being there, makes actually ENSL less accessible to new players, and your argument void.

In the second place, being "competitive" is about making the difference in the game with human skill and gamesense, not with your hardware. Sure it's great you can tune up performance by buying better screens, gfx and stuff like that, but it has to have its limits. Just like racecars in F1 have limits on speed (mostly due safety though), engine, computer-controlled driving etc. Just imagine, if LMG's or w/e's speed would be exponentially relative to FPS and your computer couldn't do high FPS, I'm pretty sure you'd be among the whiners aswell.

Just for the argument, when money (hardware) makes the difference between losing and winning, you might aswell give the money to tournament organizers for the championship and it'd have no practical difference. We're not there, but you get the point. So don't even try to argue for the principle for performance ceilings being non-competitive.

I'm personally not saying opinion to one direction or another but there're fine arguments on both side.

Btw, does anyone know if there're LCD screens with refresh above 125 ?