Teams that disbanded weeks ago are still listed (Radical, gB... maybe more). Cutting 1 or 2 teams from D1,3&4 accompanied with the addition of "team without full rosters" could give Divisons 2 groups a&b...

Say there are 45-48 teams enter:

Prem - 5/6 teams
D1 - 6/7 teams
D2 (a&b) - 14 teams
D3 (a&b) - 14 teams
D4 - 6/7 teams

I also think there has been a lot of time since S3 and some teams made very good progress and some rosters are completely different, I am offering my POV in this alternative seeding table. Couple notes first, no idea what to do or how is RaZe lately and div 3/4 i don't know much about: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlUh2cax_Ra4dEZ0XzRiUkwtMDVmSDZ2d1oyQ1FOZnc&usp=sharing

Also radical is radical.ger in reality, hence the fall in div, i'm sorry guys. :)

Also I still think that seeding matches can take care of the most of the problem (except radical being radical.ger), it's just my view as of now.

And also agree with kilo on different division cut.

well vindaloos alternative seeding table looking much much better for div 1/2 !

and yeah the radical seeding seems to refering to the old radical.eu team :)

and i totally agree with vindaloo that Perfect Peckers should play at least 3 or div 2 and 2hrslater at least div2?

Vindaloo's alternative seedings do seem quite good. However, I think virtual dejection should remain in div1. Also, you should probably switch VXA2 and VXA omega around.

Yeah excellent job Vindaloo, Pelargir and Zefram have also done a very good draft (EDIT: Which has now replaced the offical one) these should definitely be used to decide the groups of S04

Focused on Kilo's division cuts with slight twist. Div 2 could be EU and NA group and I don't think we need Div 4, div 4 level teams need the practice and who else would give them the good one other than div 3. I am not really sure how to split div 3 groups, but would go with best teams separate 1 by 1 and then go trough the seeding table and jsut fill teh groups 1 by 1 (haven't done this yet). The question is if zefram would allow to completely rework it like this.

Considering this is an international league and I like intercontinental play, I'm not keen on having EU and NA only divisions unless the vast majority of teams prefer that. Thanks for the thoughts and spreadsheets for alternate seedings too. We'll refine this thing along the way to get good competitive divisions.

when i saw nearly 50 teams signed up i had the dream of going back to season2 days with european divison usa divison australian ect

can we please sort the divison after continent or ping again
i saw it working in season2

its so much less hassle to scheduling games and so much less rage about "shoot me around corner" cause of ping

Here's to Arj, and hoping that his team doesnt disband midseason.

Alright, I redid the whole thing with teh commentary: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlUh2cax_Ra4dEZ0XzRiUkwtMDVmSDZ2d1oyQ1FOZnc&usp=sharing

pls take Vindaloos list in consideration... as it looks right now he seems to have a lot better knowledge of the skilllevel of the teams, and div 4 seems to be out of place with only 5 teams.

Us/ EU teams might not be needed and shouldnt be too much of a problem Vindaloos Div2 Mixed seems alright

I'll definitely take Vindaloo's seedings into consideration. To be perfectly honest, I'm out of sorts with ranking a lot of the Div 2 and lower EU teams. So the list is definitely helpful and I'll use them to refine things.

Please don't make the same mistakes as season 3. It's hard for div 2/3 teams to schedule pcw against NA teams, since we don't play as often as div1 teams. So many shit happened last season because of this and now we have enough teams to make div 2 EU and NA.

In my opinion Vindaloo almost nailed it.
Especially the lower Divs seem way more balanced.

Also I'd support EU/US split when possible. Mostly for comfort as Mega said.

I don't know what all Zefram means when "considering seedings". I want to point out that seeding can be changed with seeding matches. What is most important to me is division splits! Not gonna repeat the points which are in the document.

ABadHabit, Perfect Peckers maybe move into div3.

Pelargir thats what we were going for anyway./ we are discussing that cause alot of div 3 teams tell us that we shouldnt be div 3 im trying atm to look at div 2 teams and play a game again to make sure where we stand, no point to argue about single slots here though.. i think its more about the general style of the divisions.
And the overall adjustments by Vindaloo are accurate especially the div 3 parts.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. But I have seen GCC playing with quite a lot of Premier and Div 1 members recently. Even if they are not Div 1 material maybe a higher seeding?

No EU/US splits please, rather have balanced divisions. l2schedule and commit to your matches -.-

And ye, do some seeding games habit, but depending on how many teams zef wants in div2, not really sure what other team you would bump up into div2.

No, gCC have clearly level div2. So don't worry about that Stranger. But, Perfect Peckers & RaZe at the sight of their level moved to div2. My question what is the real division for Work in Progress?

AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO LIKES THE NEW SETUP???

inb4 australia happens

Link to the forum post : http://www.ensl.org/topics/1056?page=1#post_13212

I HATE the idea of segregating again. There's a reason that we all decided to do international play. Yes, scheduling matches is slightly more inconvenient. My team was in a group with nothing but euros // aussies for both NSL season and the NS2WC. Yes, it's a pain in the ass sometimes. Personally, I'd rather have a hard time scheduling but really good, close games than have an easy time scheduling and have half the games be stomps. Looking at Vindaloo's tentative separated bracket for D2 NA? We would stomp most of those teams. It would not even be worth playing.

I do really like the idea of Div 3 and 4 being combined!

As far as the groups go, they are looking really good, as for the actual seedings within the groups, they are way off, but that does not really matter

While I think the Premiere Division and Div 1 look good, I think Div 2 is not well balanced and I'm not a fan of completely merging Divs 3 and 4 together.

Work In Progress, currently Div 3, regularly scrimmages Frequency and we're pretty close in skill, and I think we're similar to Wonga based on our CMC games and probably Silvermoon based on experience some of our players have with them from Season 3. All of those teams are Div 2. I certainly don't think that we should be in a lower division than Frequency or Wonga. At the same time, Div 2 has teams like GCC and Vexta, which I think are significantly more skilled than our level of play.

Meanwhile, our division seems to have a massive skill spread. This is going to result in a lot of stomps and a lot of uninteresting games. Collapsing divisions 3 and 4 together into one feels like the reverse of what happened when the Premiere Division was split out from Div 1, and I think the result will be similar to that old Div 1. I think the skill difference is too high and I strongly advocate for a new division.

Our suggestion is the following:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsK3PQVEoU8xdG5RZUdDTFN6WU1PUndVQmN1T2NiMEE&usp=sharing

Thanks for the cheers Tots. I will try and get these suckers active.

I've had my fair share of people losing interest in the game, but I have always finished a season till the end ;)

I see zefram used the ideas, there are some mistakes in my seedings, the official document corrects those. So I see no need to update mine.

Fiskbit, if you feel you belong to div 2 just play the seeding match.

We're still refining as people/teams give me their input. Thanks. Hopefully teams will be happy and/or play a seeding match in the next week or two.

I don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to have one division split into regional locations. Either the entire league should be regional split, or everyone should play the same league. Yeah, sure scheduling is a bit harder when you play against teams from all over the world, but overall you get alot more even games in terms of skill level by putting everyone together.

I also preferred S3 over S2 seedings. Yes, scheduling is hard sometimes, but we have had so many more interesting games and way less boring stomps due to it. Unfortunetaly, it's not like we have 50 teams for each region so we need to work with what we have to get an enjoyable experience for the whole comp scene.

And a lot of games were never played :) (div3b)

having div.3 and div.4 together is a really bad idea in my eyes. what will the teams learn when they are going to be completely stomped. it'll be like going through the rookie phase all over again but against people that can aim and team play.

thank you for the ns2 friends.

div3+4 = best div, much wow such games

please split on divison 3 and 4 trough continents that makes it so much easier for seldom playing teams to organise

also im not so much into div3 and 4 but i can imagine that putting div3 and 4 together might be bad..

Mega, that's a possibility with regional splits for the div 3 and 4.

don't see problem with div3&4 together, looks like fun! I'm div 3-4.. Any other div3/4 guys wanna comment on this?
yes there are differences in skill but it's surely not as exponential as in jumping from one higher div to the next. Might be a few stomps, but definately some awesome games too. Don't mind playing muricans either, brings fresh games over same pcw opponents we keep meeting over and over? Hard to schedule maybe but we didn't have major problems before with our team & opponents.. so I'm all for div3&4 NA/EU together, personally.

i like playing EU teams regardless of a slightly altered scheduling. Game styles are different, there is always learning to be done

So Div3 got three different groups right? Why is my team in the group A? We've played PCW:s against OMNOM multiple times and every time they've beaten us. Not to mention there's HBZ and others.

As a starting team it should be fair to start from the bottom or even from group B. I don't see the reasoning putting us that high, assuming there's split groups in div3.

Group A doesnt mean that group has the best teams in the division.

Maybe some of these teams are better than yours, but for B or C, I really think YOU beat them everytime.

No, not at all. In fact, most of these teams would beat our team any given time. Hence why I don't want to get completely stomped in the group A, at least get some interesting matches in the lower groups.

Judging by the PCWs I've played against a lot of these div3/4 teams, I'd say there is indeed a skill gap between teams within each div3 group itself.

But it's also really hard to judge accurately by PCWs, because often the lineups are irregular, or the tactics are experimental.

My team is in div3 group A but we've been beaten by or drawed against teams from group C for instance. :)

Neoken, read Yaluzan's post above.

Where do you guys see divisions within Division 3? I just see seedings with teams not put into any group yet. Please stop the misinformation. Teams can still contact me to talk about where they'd like to be or see their team performing at. That would be helpful. I try to watch/attend as many scrims/pcws as possible, but I can't catch them all and rely on information passed to me.

As far as the divisional break ups, those seedings in Division 3 are just my best guess at the relative strength of each team. the columns are not the breakdowns of the groups you'll be playing in.

I haven't decided the groupings in Div 3 but it wouldn't be A, B, & C, where A is strongest and C is weakest. It would be a mix of skill within each grouping. Some teams will be better than others if we keep it that way. Because new teams would be playing semi-newish teams.

Another option is creating a Division 4. I'm not entirely sure yet. I'll have more revised seedings and plans after Saturday when sign ups are closed.

My bad, I was under the assumption the 3 groups would be divided according to seeding as some suggested. So if div3 and div4 will be merged, how would the 3 groups be made up? Any ideas on that yet?

Judging by the post Zefram made that is right above yours, they would be seeded relatively equally.

Zefram will know more about whether or not div3/4 are going to be merged once sign ups close on saturday.

Poor Lucky F'ers win Div 4 Season 3 just to be put back into Div 4 in season 4. :P