Iots | el'pheer

I'm already imagining it, TomTom will get high again and ask for a seeding match for a higher div.

15 September 2014, 14:12

Trademark

nice bm first comment....... But on a opinion of someone who is actually playing this season ^^ looks great very excited to play against these teams well done so far Zefram.

15 September 2014, 14:17

Iots | el'pheer

Hey, we've still got a week to sign up. Albeit it doesn't really look that tempting, hoping for +10 teams to sign up for the divisions to not be a joke.

15 September 2014, 14:20

RisingSun

Maybe Sing and VD should be premier. They both have the potential and it looks like they are needed to keep premier interesting. (If no other teams join of course)

15 September 2014, 16:51

east

3hrsLater could compete with 2 or even 3 of the current div 1 teams. I agree with vD and strongularity being put into prem div as of the current seedings

15 September 2014, 17:28

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Who made this list 5 days before the signup closed an why?
Some descisions are very questionable.

15 September 2014, 18:33

Iots | el'pheer

So you can have access to it, and discuss it? Go on, don't be shy.

15 September 2014, 18:37

east

dePara bm.

15 September 2014, 18:37

RisingSun

I agree with the placements other than the ones I mentioned. It would be up to the teams themselves of course. There is a clear division of skill between 1 and 2 unfortunately.

15 September 2014, 18:57

X-rayCat | Battle Gorge Royale

I agree that Premier division should be bigger, it would be so nice to watch more games from premier :P

15 September 2014, 19:09

PASCOW

why is there no div4? i want to play div4 with my team because we are a new team and dont know how to play together and stuff......but i guess we shouldnt sign up then

15 September 2014, 19:15

Neoken | Div2orDisband

lol

15 September 2014, 19:27

RisingSun

.

15 September 2014, 20:24

Iots | el'pheer

because she-wolves didn't sign up, they'd be the only team there with you pascow. /pat

15 September 2014, 20:27

Sam | one brit too many

No offence but I doubt any one in Div1 will cut it in prem. They never play prem teams in pcw's for starters and it would be a huge waste of both party's time.

15 September 2014, 21:08

RisingSun

From last season it looked like Godar needed to be in Div 1, we saw Sauna's alien game was severely lacking, and 2ez is a mix of Div 1 and Prem. So let's be honest.... Prem isnt what it used to be.

15 September 2014, 21:12

Pelargir | We're grumpy

Some of Division 1 teams can easily fight against 1re division. +1 RisingSun + no interest to watch the current Premier division without some new blood. But let's the said teams decide.

15 September 2014, 21:18

east

+ after roster changes you should talk about some of the div 1 teams get downgraded to div 2 for their sake.

15 September 2014, 22:35

Simba

I was super excited about gnarcolepsy joining premiere :(

15 September 2014, 22:51

Trademark

RisingSun says

From last season it looked like Godar needed to be in Div 1, we saw Sauna's alien game was severely lacking, and 2ez is a mix of Div 1 and Prem. So let's be honest.... Prem isnt what it used to be.

do you really want to play godar in div 1

i believe vd should be moved up but sing can stay guys this new div 1 is a wider skill base than last season just keep that in mind before you start asking for other teams to be moved up :D

15 September 2014, 23:28

Zefram

I don't think most people understand the steep drop off of team play after the top 4-5 teams. Even with Godar struggling last season, I would have placed my bet on them easily beating any div 1 team from last season. I've talked with Chb about this and even pushing up Virtual Dejection is a big question mark. Although, I believe their individual skill might more or less be capable of competing, the team as a whole would likely lose 3-1 or 4-0 in most matches to the top 4 teams.

Like last season, the goal is to have competitive matches that aren't roflstomps, but with few teams registered at this point, we work with what we have. If more teams sign up, it could lend itself to a better breakdown.

Thanks, guys. Keep posting.

15 September 2014, 23:42

Kaneh

Lol, we'll never be premier. That's not how sing has worked except maaaaybe the first incarnation, but that had other issues.

16 September 2014, 08:21

Iots | el'pheer

Simba why no gnarcolepsy? Did Griff kill another team?! :(
But yeah, unless vD improved tons from last season making them play in premium might be a bit of a tall order, but hey if they want to try, sure go ahead. IMO the only team that has skillwise the people who could play in premium is Singularity, but they've been slacking to get their shit together for so long i doubt they could care less anymore. :D

16 September 2014, 08:25

skyice | Div2orDisband

whipped will have a tough time in the new div 1?

16 September 2014, 08:38

Kaneh

you understand us Iots,

wow i can't make a lessthan3 because html or something wtfffff

16 September 2014, 08:38

Iots | el'pheer

it's wonga skyice, call them what they are!

http://www.twitch.tv/ggkaneh/profile/past_broadcasts is too empty, needs more gigglin

16 September 2014, 09:35

RisingSun

I just tried to do the lessthan 3 also :/ <3

16 September 2014, 09:42

simple

HBZ should move to Div 1

16 September 2014, 09:48

east

simple says

HBZ should move to Div 1

+1

16 September 2014, 11:13

Yaluzan | Admin Abuse

east says

simple says
HBZ should move to Div 1

+1

Yea, HBZ is better than ever, needs Div 1.

16 September 2014, 11:21

LyDDa | ELOgain

I would like to see Singularity and VD in premier division. Maybe the teams are surprising, they can improve themselves and it would be not so boring to see every season the same teams playing each other. (except kind of 2ez)
If both teams would be in premier and its like the most ppl say (they get stomped) they can fight each other to be not the last.

16 September 2014, 13:18

Robby

Maybe VD and Singu belong in div 1, but as much better as they are compared to the rest in there it does kind of feel like the most fundamental rule of recreative competition (to face those equal or better than oneself) is shot to heck for them. If i was in a team with that much skill i'd rather go up a div as it's pretty clear we'd win the current div if we stayed anyway. Not quite as exciting to know who the winner is before the season even started. Neither i nor anyone else can speak for them. But if Godar gets to play in prime div even though they didn't win a single match last season, i don't really see why VD and Singu can't get a shot at it too.

Zefram seems to know the prime div teams well. But what on earth is Whipped doing in div 1 after they barely fit in with div 2 last season? And i agree that HBZ are ready for div 1.

16 September 2014, 13:38

Vindaloo

First I would like to see VD play Godar or 2ez before the seedings are final. I think they are prem div material. I would hate to stop PCWing with them if they focused on prem div, but they are pretty strong and could put up good fight IMHO. Sing can stay div1.
I am sorry but I think whipped doesn't belong to div 1, give us HBZ instead. We haven't been able to play Yggdrasil yet, so I cant say there, anyone else played them?

16 September 2014, 15:22

ryssk | Ram Ranch

ALL HAIL TO THE MADDA EFFIN H & B IN DA Z!! with other words, yeah i would like to see HBZ in Div1 :)

16 September 2014, 16:33

Sam | one brit too many

Robby, you seem to forget or not realise we spent the majority of last season without a commander and had to use mercs for most games. Even with that almost all of our games and rounds were extremely close. If VD and Singularity wanna move up then play a pcw vs us. If they can hold their own then it is no problem.

16 September 2014, 16:33

ryssk | Ram Ranch

Just play against all the prem teams to check the situation? Just not 1 or 2 teams. I mean SammyG did try commanding was it first time? xD Atleast they didnt disband but held the team together! And didnt fuck up the results.

16 September 2014, 16:38

Pelargir | We're grumpy

If vD want to move up into 1re Division I don't know what's wrong. They can probably try it out via a simple scrim or something, it doesn't matter but I really don't understand why you don't want more teams in 1re Division. I also agree Whipped do not belong to Division 1 but honestly, I didn't see one of their recent pcws so no idea if they've trained and progressed. About HBZ, it is definitely the same issue, let's play a seeding match 'cause I don't how much they got stronger.

16 September 2014, 16:47

Sam | one brit too many

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I do not want more teams in the Division. I just don't see the point in putting 2 teams in Prem that most likely won't stand a chance when they can remain in their Division and the gap between them and the other teams is much closer. I also said if they want to move up then play us in a pcw, you need to read more carefully.

16 September 2014, 16:59

Pelargir | We're grumpy

"No offence but I doubt any one in Div1 will cut it in prem. They never play prem teams in pcw's for starters and it would be a huge waste of both party's time." That means, in your opinion, you disagree to have some of the current division 1 teams joining your own. You probably need to take a look on those teams 'cause they are individually skilled enough to fight against your team. It should be a stronger challenge if they can pretend to join 1re Division of course but clearly more interesting for them. Sticking in Division 1 when they defeat all the current teams in that said division doesn't really make more sense for these teams that will know the final score and winners of the season. If those do not want to move up, alright, but if that is their choice even if there's an important chance to not win their division, let's try it out.

But it doesn't matter, this decision does not belong to me.

16 September 2014, 17:29

Sam | one brit too many

It matters not, if they want to play us then so be it. Let's test them out.

16 September 2014, 18:00

Hyste

just re-create a div 4 no ? vD win a lot of div1 team but i think prems is a litle too high, maybe we can win some rounds if singularity go with us but we will never win against the others..

16 September 2014, 18:33

Robby

I didn't know that, Sammy. Thanks for the info.

16 September 2014, 18:48

Golden | Snoofed

You guys really don't seem to understand the gap between Premiere and Div 1. Try to get some PCWs with any premiere team or even a premiere mix if you really think VD and Sing should be up there. I'm all for having more teams in Premiere, but not if they're just going to get stomped every week and lose interest in the game.

16 September 2014, 19:00

LyDDa | ELOgain

I guess that no one think its the right place for them. The same for me. But if I would be one of VD or Singu I would like to play against better players to increase my own skill instead stomping in another league. I would have a higher motivation. But let themselves try and decide if they want... in a seeding match or whatever...

16 September 2014, 19:10

Ben | SUPERDUPONT

"if they're just going to get stomped every week and lose interest in the game." Stomp or not, we lose interest since ns2 is Titus Selection 2. HAHAHA more drama please.

16 September 2014, 19:14

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

I aways thought that the finalist teams moving to the higher div and the last of one a div move down to the lower division. Without that a endround would be a bit useless.
The whole league would be useless without this mechanic.

In every sport teams can move to lower divisions after a bad season.
They can play one season there, stomp all teams and coming back to the higher division.

Thats how a league is working in every fucking sports game.

Its abit of a joke that you improve over 2 seasons, and other teams have to play ONE seeding match and they are in higher divisions like you in the end.

To summ it up:
VD is one of the last remaining teams from the DIV1 end round, godar didnt won any match in season4. no matter what reason.

16 September 2014, 19:29

Hyste

"if they're just going to get stomped every week and lose interest in the game." get stomped is not a bad thing like Lydda say and i don't think that we will stomp everything on div 1, but if we need to play on prems just play and get rekt, it's not a bad thing for me :p

16 September 2014, 19:47

Pelargir | We're grumpy

I agree @dePARA but that looks very hard to maintain this kind of mechanic with a such small number of signing teams.
If I follow your statement, those that won the last season should move up to the next higher division and those that lost should move down rightly to the lower division. Fair enough and in general, it works like that but do you really think Godar in Division 1 is a reasonable idea? Plenty of the teams did not even participate to Season 4 but most of the players were already there, through different and other teams.

16 September 2014, 21:09

Nexen

Let ygdrassil and hbz play a seeding match against onfire,if they win or draw Put them in div1....

Btw: Put gb in div 1, they won the last div against hbz so they should move on like depara said

17 September 2014, 11:29

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

We played multiple PCWs against onFire and i think they know our skill level.
Just look at the comments here.

@Pelargir
No, Godar wont play in div1.
Lets say they would moved to div1 cause last season results, im sure following would happen:
Godar disbanded, a new team would formed with the same players, one seeding match and voila: back in premium division.

Its nothing against any player of godar, its just a fact that this league system is wrong.
But thats only my opinion and totally offtopic here. So im sorry

17 September 2014, 13:48

Mendasp | I'm disappointing

If you wanted to use such a system you wouldn't have 5 teams in premiere, you'd have 8-10 so ups-downs are more reasonsable skill-wise.

Then again we'd be back to games where 3 or 4 of the rounds are cheese attempts which noone really wants to watch or play.

17 September 2014, 13:54

Mega | pubstars

You gus rember vexta from last season well they played not that good shortly inb4 the season and nearly won the divison on the end what means team can improve a lot.

Based on that the whole league system is a bit too Static would it be possible to trade teams trough divison in the running season ? for example:

Vexta in that case would start in div2 but would have transfered to div1 halfway trough the season and an other team in div1 probly ant or something would have moved down. like that you keep it more interesting i guess.

(its not tought out how it could work but probly you just gonna take the points with you that you got allready)

17 September 2014, 14:40

maxamus | IG

Ladder Based league would be best split into divisions like it is now, but during the live season teams can move up and down by playing the bottom team in the division above them and taking there place if they lose they stay in the same division, can even keep the group format, and make it so that when a team after x amount of games played, can then play the bottom team in the division above them, there for creating a much more competitive / fun based system. maybe it could work, maybe it wont, but it may be something worth testing for a season.

17 September 2014, 15:57

Vindaloo

Ladder ideas, I always liked them, some hybrid with regular season could be nice.

17 September 2014, 17:21

MV | Doctors

In my opinion:
Godar : prem
Singularity : haven't watched them play in a while so I don't know
vD : prem (if they want to, they have the potential to actually do stuff and improve)
Whipped : div 2
HBZ and maybe 3hrslater : div 1

But yeah, If there's any doubt, you guys should organize pcws and find out this way

17 September 2014, 18:29

Zefram

Although the up down method for teams moving between divisions was written in the rules before I became league/head admin, it was never really used in practice. Because of the nature of team rosters between seasons, I've just reevaluated teams at the start of every season and, with help from you guys, placed them in the divisions we thought most appropriate. We did it last season and we're going through this process now. Pretty much a fresh start every season informed by recent results and pcws/scrims.

I would be interested in looking into a ladder system after this season. It would be difficult to find a good league format that allow teams to hop divisions mid season without disruption. Determined teams will of course improve during the course of a season, I don't see that as a need to move a team up in the middle of one.

17 September 2014, 19:13

east

3hrsLater is definitely too stronk for div 2 now, after picking up Tinkeh and Rios they can easily play div 1 and stomp half the teams in there

17 September 2014, 20:47

Nexen

What is that you try ladder before the season Starts? Like we play ladder two weeks and force Teams to play 4-6 matches(for example) and after that you have an better overview about Teams and skill to Put them in the season?

17 September 2014, 20:50

Pelargir | We're grumpy

@east, I'm not even sure Tinki and RioS are going to be in their main roster but whatever, let's move up 3hrsLater to make sure France is capable to win all the divisions.

17 September 2014, 21:04

skyice | Div2orDisband

just played 3hrslater, although they had rios they were v strong, nice form, tight buttocks. We played a few good games against hbz, although they are defiantly better than us we managed to take rounds more often than not. On this form 3hrs will wipe div 2.

17 September 2014, 22:38

bm | LA MERDE PANTALON

Yeah 3hrsltr lineup seems a bit OP for div2.

17 September 2014, 23:28

east

Yea, duviel op

17 September 2014, 23:47

herakles

France stronk. USA wronk. Let's bring freedom aux USA les gars!

18 September 2014, 08:03

Cr4zy | SpookerZ

these seedings seem so random

18 September 2014, 19:25

east

put 3hrsLtr into div 1 and everything looks solid(fluffyliquid)

18 September 2014, 19:39

RisingSun

Please don't make a group A and B in div 1. Make another division.

18 September 2014, 22:48

ritual | The Boys

div 1 looks chill imo. i'll have fun playing against/beating all those teams. stoked that 3hrs moved up, always liked playing those dudes.

18 September 2014, 23:22

ryssk | Ram Ranch

And why cant we have a bigger group? Why splitting them into 2 groups? I actually would like to see one big group instead of 2 small ones -.-

19 September 2014, 10:02

tudy

I like bigger groups as well. But I guess the reason for splitting is: time. The more teams are in one(!) division, the longer the season will take, unless you change the format (and I guess that is out of discussion a week before the season starts).

Before splitting div1 into div1a and div1b I would rather like to see div4 coming back, although it is more work. Here is why:
If nothing is done:
The biggest group is div1 with 10 teams, the smallest is prem-div with 5. This means prem-div has to pause 5 game-days. Even if you smooth it out perefectly there will still be a div with 9 teams, meaning that almost half of the season prem-div is paused.

If div1 is split:
Then we have 3 divisions with 5 teams each. The biggest group will be div2 with 8 teams. Resulting in 8 game-days and a MAJORITY of teams will have to pause 3 game-days.

If div4 comes back:
With div4 back we could smooth it out to 7 teams at most in one div. This makes the season more compact. The overall number of game-days is reduced to 7. Prem-div-teams have to pause two games, others at most 1.

Of course with div4 back the whole discussion of seedings starts afresh ^^. But I think it would be worth it.

19 September 2014, 10:45

Zefram

Cr4zy sent me some suggested reseedings. I'm open to them. comments please. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YP_X9Qw-JarUKR13_cnu5EQsQWLEy_pJaDzmKtmpqf4/edit#gid=0

19 September 2014, 11:13

tudy

Looks nice. The discussion about vD and other previously discussed teams being a div higher or not can continue :)

However: PowerUp is missing.

19 September 2014, 11:48

LyDDa | ELOgain

+1 new seeding list

19 September 2014, 13:03

Vindaloo

Cr4zy's seedings look nice, but haven't yggdrasil been beating every other team around them? Should it be yggdrasil move to div 1, vd move to prem div and we will have at most 6 teams instead of 7 per group, shorter season and we can get onto new format after that. All this is in regards to Cr4zy's seedings.

19 September 2014, 14:23

Chb | High Expectations

Crazy's seedings is fine for me, but you can put us in div "prem" no probs with that it will be funny :D

19 September 2014, 14:46

Sephy | We're grumpy

I think Zefram's seedings are far more accurate than Crazy's proposal,
Crazy's seedings seems to be random for a lot of teams.. Meh.. Like Prem div only is ok without talking about vD.

19 September 2014, 15:01

tudy

@Vindaloo: Since PowerUp! and Starke Fischerboot are missing in that list (31 teams are registered at the moment of this writing), having at most 6 teams per div is no longer possible.

So, by sheer numbers, we will have one div with 7 teams anyways.

This is not a statement, if Yggdrasil should play div1 or not, of course. I leave this for others to discuss :)

19 September 2014, 15:27

Cr4zy | SpookerZ

The only reason the vd position is different in those lists is because if they wanna play prem let them, if not, top of d1.
The rest of the seedings are where I felt teams were against matching skill levels without having wild skill differences in the divisions like the current one has (imo)
Ive played with most players in most teams, mercd with many teams or something atleast the majority of EU teams.

If you don't like it that's fine, I wasn't a fan of Zeframs initial list so I did something to base my opinion on :>

also ill add powerup

19 September 2014, 15:35

BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

No it's exactly the other way around with the seedings imo. Crazy's suggestion is nice and he probably put more thought into it because, as he said earlier, the previous seedings were pretty random. But I guess DWC should be moved up and MAYBE (don't know how good they are right now) whipped should be moved down. Also, teams should keep in mind that they have to contact zefram if they are unhappy with their division (EHEM SEPHY EHEM!)

19 September 2014, 15:35

MV | Doctors

Hmm Cr4zy's 5 divs seeding list seems okay for the most part. Although I'm not sure about Whipped being in div 2 and Spastic Colon & PowerUp too. About vD, it's up to them I'd say.
Battle Gorge Royale in Div 3 ? I don't know about that either.

About DoctorsWithoutGorges : we only did two pcws against Zef div 2 teams :
DWG vs PFB : 3-1
DWG vs Spastic Colon : 4-1 (with a re)

we're playing against TAWific next sunday, we'll see.

About cr4zy's 4 divs mockup : I don't know if Yggdrasil belongs in div 2, should stay in div 1 imo

19 September 2014, 15:47

tudy

I wonder what a 4-divisions-setup would look like, if teams-per-division-balance was enforced:

It would have 7 teams in one division and 8 in each other so far. Could be interesting as well. There would be still the gap between the top half of prem-div and the bottom-half of prem-div, but at least everybody would play at least 6 games with almost no pauses?

This of course would need 2-3 brave teams to compete with the "big" guys. With their goal of maybe stealing them a point here or there, to get the edge over their direct competitors. The "big" ones need to watch out not losing points against the lower half.

The 2-3 brave teams wouldn't get stomped completely, since they can still fight each other, while still have the experience of playing prem-div teams. Only for the prem-div teams it would suck a bit, I guess. But also for them it is a challenge not to loose points to the assumed weaker opponent.

It is a strategic decission of course: How long do you want the season? How large should the portion of decissive wins be? Extreme cases:
1 division: Very long. Lots of unneccessary games.
16 divisions: Extremely short ^^. Only balanced games.

This is for illustrations :)

I guess only a 4-divisions- or 5-divisions-setup makes sense.

19 September 2014, 15:50

Durkmons

+1 for Cr4zy_ seedings list

19 September 2014, 15:51

Sephy | We're grumpy

ok i start from crazy's list, here's my advice for changes :

In the four division format (left one): BGR => div3 ; Yggdrazil => div1

In the five division format (right one): vD => div premier ; PowerUP, Whipped, inspire => div3 ; BGR => div4

I would like to see a seeding match between ComboBreaker and DiamondGamers
Concerning the other div1/2 team (in five div format), I don't know well their strenght..
I slightly prefer the four division format.

19 September 2014, 16:05

east

-1 for cr4zy's list

19 September 2014, 16:19

Hyste

+1 for cr4zy's list, but i think DWG can go div2

19 September 2014, 16:30

tudy

Problem:
"Move team A up!"
"No, move it down!"
"Ehrm... we would like to stay here."
...

Let's use science!

After registration closes each team-captain is forced to give a sorted list of the 3 teams he thinks are the closest in skill level to his team.

The goal is to construct a seeding list from the topmost team to the lowest. The more teams are next to other teams, they have announced would be close in skill level, the better the seeding list (objective function).

All left to do is to solve a large Integer Linear Program to get the optimal seeding list, under the above criteria. Cut the list into 4 or 5 equally sized parts, which makes the divisions.

Tadaa!

Perfect Seedings after a mouse-click, without 100 comments after a seeding attempt by hand. Every. Single. Season.

Sideeffect: Get an A in your next Mathematical Optimization Seminar, maybe even a paper-publication!

Problem solved.

(Of course not. People don't trust science :P )

19 September 2014, 16:49

east

tudy says

Problem:
"Move team A up!"
"No, move it down!"
"Ehrm... we would like to stay here."
...

Let's use science!

After registration closes each team-captain is forced to give a sorted list of the 3 teams he thinks are the closest in skill level to his team.

The goal is to construct a seeding list from the topmost team to the lowest. The more teams are next to other teams, they have announced would be close in skill level, the better the seeding list (objective function).

All left to do is to solve a large Integer Linear Program to get the optimal seeding list, under the above criteria. Cut the list into 4 or 5 equally sized parts, which makes the divisions.

Tadaa!

Perfect Seedings after a mouse-click, without 100 comments after a seeding attempt by hand. Every. Single. Season.

Sideeffect: Get an A in your next Mathematical Optimization Seminar, maybe even a paper-publication!

Problem solved.

(Of course not. People don't trust science :P )

that explains why taw is div 4

19 September 2014, 16:58

PolskaKielbasa | Battle Gorge Royale

I agree with Sephy. BGR => div4

19 September 2014, 17:14

MV | Doctors

Hyste says

+1 for cr4zy's list, but i think DWG can go div2

Hmm which list, the 5 divs or 4 divs one ? The problem is not DWG not being in div2, it's seing teams that belong to div 3 being in div 2 (on the 5 divs list)

Still talking about Cr4zy :
4 divisions seems fine. Big divisions alright but more balanced ones than 5 divs.
5 divisions div2 (after feedback) doesn't make sense imo. PowerUp, DWG and Spastic are about the same skill level, but the three others are way over our league.

For short, I like the 4 divisions thing more. Now Zef's or Cr4zy's, I don't know

19 September 2014, 17:19

east

MV says

Hyste says
+1 for cr4zy's list, but i think DWG can go div2

4 divisions seems fine. Big divisions alright but more balanced ones than 5 divs.
5 divisions div2 (after feedback) doesn't make sense imo. PowerUp, DWG and Spastic are about the same skill level, but the three others are way over our league.

Completely agreeing with this. Not to downtalk their skill, but to ensure that those teams will get the opportunity to play the season while continuously improving without getting horribly murdered. I know Nittai is doing a very good job getting inspire in shape more and more every day.

19 September 2014, 18:17

RisingSun

Crazy's list

- Combo needs to go up a div. They are not Div 4.
- HBZ (from what we heard) and my team OE need to go up one. HBZ is said to be 1-1ing OnFire and OE have been 1-3 rarely, 1-1ing often, and sometimes 3-1ing Sweetie and the Bots.
- elpheer down one (they havent played and have a lot of unknowns about their roster and starting line up.)
- Ygg doesnt even have a full roster. So they shouldn't be seeded yet.

Seeding matches will have to be done tbh. There are a lot of unknowns.

But i do like the 5 div format.

19 September 2014, 20:06

BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

Why do people always have to make some super complicated suggestions? Why not let the teams themselves decide which div they'd like to be in? Players of a team know their own strength best, why does it have to be decided by the ideas of other people that don't even know the team they are judging? Not to sound rude, but it's kinda rediculous what people say about other teams here. Just let them decide how strong they are and which teams they can compete with. If they get stomped it's their own fault.
Long story short, if YOU are unhappy with your div, just tell the admin and it's going to be changed, why make so much drama out of it in the comment section... (except for things like a much stronger team being in a div where it shouldn't be of course)
OK it obviously IS going to sound rude with me being in inspire, but this it what it's like imo.

19 September 2014, 20:37

Iots | el'pheer

What bauer said, feel free to speculate though, it's entertaining me while i'm taking breaks from rifts, :D

19 September 2014, 22:44

Robby

@BauerJankins, because divisions are about inter-team skill-levels and not about personal desire.

There have been teams who flat-out refused to play seeding matches in previous seasons and others who purposefully play bad during them and choose/end up in lower divisions to give themselves an easy ride to victory. Other teams simply don't know how much they've improved and/or know enough about the other teams in a division to know any better. Only with the help of the community can the ENSL ensure that a balance happens. Whipped originally being placed in div 1 was an example of how little the ENSL staff knows about certain teams too. As Zefram clearly stated, the very purpose of announcing the seeding list is because "They are subject to change as the discussion warrants.". It's not about drama. It's about helping out. The suggestions are good and necessary.

Most of us don't expect to get any fame or fortune out of this. But let's be honest; we all care about victories here and at least want to have a chance at winning our division. The fun of the competition itself is the only thing we have. And placing too good a team in the wrong division thus destroys the fun for everyone else in it. This is fundamentally wrong and must be stopped. That's why it's so great that this community is so verbal. The more balanced divisions the better. If people wanna bitch about being moved up or down because they're better or worse than they think, that's drama.

20 September 2014, 01:07

snb | NERDS

Crazy's list looks better than Zefram's. On a slightly unrelated note, can we stop the mental 12 year olds among us from changing their team name 20 times during the season?

20 September 2014, 08:06

CRaZyCAT | Horror Show

Crazy's list have one inconsistency.
3 divs format: HBZ(1 div) - Yggdrasil(2 div)
4 divs format: HBZ(2 div) - Yggdrasil(1 div)

generally, both Crazy's and Zefram's seedings is acceptable for us (3 div format is more desired)
But I know nothing about skill Diamond Gamers, Whipped and Combo Breaker.

20 September 2014, 13:00

BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

@Robby, that's included in my comment. Of course it's stupid to set a high skill team in a low division.

@topic, I can only say that the "changes from feedback" 5 div list is looking very good to me. If NOW teams say that other teams in their div are too strong for them, they should maybe request to be moved down one bit. That's my opinion (I personally prefer to be stomped instead of stomping in div 4, apparently some people like it the other way around)

20 September 2014, 15:18

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

I think Intent is not a Div1 Team:
http://www.ensl.org/contesters/2669

elPheer didnt play for ages and im not sure that they have a full rooster.

20 September 2014, 15:26

Iots | el'pheer

did you just call us chicken? :D

i love the didn't play for ages argument when there's been no reason to play the game :D, summer you know, guess what, summer is over! haha.

20 September 2014, 16:27

Hyste

I love sausages.

20 September 2014, 16:37

east

dePARA says

I think Intent is not a Div1 Team:
http://www.ensl.org/contesters/2669

Intent. = Whipped = HBZ

20 September 2014, 18:06

Puzzle | Happy Little Hydras

cG stomp div 4.

20 September 2014, 20:18

Warforce17

snb says

Crazy's list looks better than Zefram's. On a slightly unrelated note, can we stop the mental 12 year olds among us from changing their team name 20 times during the season?

Pascow will not be amused. :>

20 September 2014, 20:46

east

We just played a seeding match vs HBZ and got horribly stomped :(

20 September 2014, 23:46

Warforce17

@east
Dont listen to him. We got stomped by them. :(
GL TOO STRONK!

21 September 2014, 00:05

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Its a shame that WP (Woozas playground) didnt register there team.
This is the only team that saw the real potential of NS2 with 12v12 competitive.

21 September 2014, 09:56

Pelargir | We're grumpy

dePARA says

Its a shame that WP (Woozas playground) didnt register there team.
This is the only team that saw the real potential of NS2 with 12v12 competitive.

Ask them to register. LOL

21 September 2014, 10:31

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

A bit offtopic again, just for entertainment:
The future of NS2 competitive, watch out ENSL:org:
http://apheriox.com/showthread.php/51-WP-Team

21 September 2014, 10:58

Pelargir | We're grumpy

dePARA says

A bit offtopic again, just for entertainment:
The future of NS2 competitive, watch out ENSL:org:
http://apheriox.com/showthread.php/51-WP-Team

Scary. I don't know any of them... Let's create our own NSL team with 16 players. Man, there's a cash prize.

21 September 2014, 11:31

Neoken | Div2orDisband

I actually wouldn't mind forming a 16p team and take on WP's team just to see how it would look like. Could be hilarious. XD

21 September 2014, 12:03

Benjibb | LA MERDE PANTALON

Neoken says

I actually wouldn't mind forming a 16p team and take on WP's team just to see how it would look like. Could be hilarious. XD

Only if Pascow is comm, imagine 15 players not listening to him.. oh the rage

21 September 2014, 14:03

Fiskbit | Over.Extension

Zefram's seedings look more spot-on than Cr4zy's to me, and having only 4 divisions feels better given the skill levels I've been seeing leading up to this season, but I'm not that familiar with how much the European teams have improved this summer. Also, given how my team's been doing against other div 1 teams, I don't think division 2 makes sense for us.

I hope the number of teams in a division isn't considered much in the splits and would much rather see divisions be balanced and end at different times than force teams to play outside their skill level. I also hope we don't see groups within a division unless it can't be helped; last season, having groups rather than splitting into multiple divisions simply widened the gap between the top and bottom of each division and made the games more unbalanced.

21 September 2014, 15:48

east

Wooza's server needs lerklift. Good thing about those huge servers is, there aren't any tryhards on them.

21 September 2014, 18:17

RedDog

Good luck to all the teams in Season 5!!

21 September 2014, 19:31

Zefram

RedDog, please come back.

21 September 2014, 23:25

Mephilles | Ctrl+Alt+Defeat

+1 on zefram (regarding RedDog)

21 September 2014, 23:27

Iots | el'pheer

So what's up with Intent in div1 still? Is there really no div2 teams(on any draft of these seedings) willing to combat this? Pascow&friends? Ina&friends?

22 September 2014, 10:01

Vindaloo

@Iots: Yes, from the results it seems like intent should be div 2. But I got no personal experience with them.
Maybe over extension div 1? Switch?

22 September 2014, 10:09

bonage | JUST THE TIP

Intent can beat most of the teams in div 1 -they should not be in div 2. They are miles ahead of last season in terms of skill, and their lineup has changed/become stronger. Keep them in Div 1

22 September 2014, 11:02

Seb

Intent definitely deserve to be in Div 1. They have improved immensely since last season. Just FYI.

22 September 2014, 11:03

Iots | el'pheer

Alright, thanks for that MR and MRS AUSNS. :)

(i was hoping i wouldnt have to play with a potential hangover on a random sunday morning!)

22 September 2014, 11:52

Fiskbit | Over.Extension

I believe my team can play at the div 1 level and should be moved back into that division. Especially given our recent performance, the demotion came as a surprise.

22 September 2014, 19:30

Trademark

i think everyone should re read over all this now that the season is over i had a nice laugh at some of the comments

20 November 2014, 00:02

Comments

Iots | el'pheer

Iots | el'pheer

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Iots | el'pheer

X-rayCat | Battle Gorge Royale

Neoken | Div2orDisband

Iots | el'pheer

Sam | one brit too many

Pelargir | We're grumpy

Iots | el'pheer

skyice | Div2orDisband

Iots | el'pheer

Yaluzan | Admin Abuse

LyDDa | ELOgain

ryssk | Ram Ranch

Sam | one brit too many

ryssk | Ram Ranch

Pelargir | We're grumpy

Sam | one brit too many

Pelargir | We're grumpy

Sam | one brit too many

Golden | Snoofed

LyDDa | ELOgain

Ben | SUPERDUPONT

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Pelargir | We're grumpy

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Mendasp | I'm disappointing

Mega | pubstars

maxamus | IG

MV | Doctors

Pelargir | We're grumpy

skyice | Div2orDisband

bm | LA MERDE PANTALON

Cr4zy | SpookerZ

ritual | The Boys

ryssk | Ram Ranch

LyDDa | ELOgain

Chb | High Expectations

Sephy | We're grumpy

Cr4zy | SpookerZ

BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

MV | Doctors

Sephy | We're grumpy

PolskaKielbasa | Battle Gorge Royale

MV | Doctors

BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

Iots | el'pheer

snb | NERDS

CRaZyCAT | Horror Show

BauerJankins | nazi hunter izO

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Iots | el'pheer

Puzzle | Happy Little Hydras

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Pelargir | We're grumpy

dePARA | Heidis Bergziegen

Pelargir | We're grumpy

Neoken | Div2orDisband

Benjibb | LA MERDE PANTALON

Fiskbit | Over.Extension

Mephilles | Ctrl+Alt+Defeat

Iots | el'pheer

bonage | JUST THE TIP

Iots | el'pheer

Fiskbit | Over.Extension

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