24 February 2015 - 09:46 EST
The whips are like real life; You got a certain % chance that you will succeed in something without any harm or consequences.
CompMod Iteration 4
The whips are like real life; You got a certain % chance that you will succeed in something without any harm or consequences.
rantology
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24 February 2015 - 10:07 EST
Whip AI is not really something in the realm of CompMod - but if there is a specific bug or situation that this happens consistently in and you can post a video or repro steps I can pass it on to the CDT
schu
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24 February 2015 - 13:34 EST
You want more pve?
I'm down for any changes that reduces the amount of pve and keeps this game more in line with PVP.
I think we all have gotten used to the way this game is played out and it's not always fun. Too much pve still, the cyst spamming is getting out of control.
I'm not insinuating that biting or shooting down harvesters/extractors is bad. I don't want this game to turn into a shitty combat mode for comp. All I'm saying is that marines have to deal with alot more pve than the aliens do. Many games are determined by the first 3-5 engagements then its just pve killing from then on. No way to get back into the game and the snowball effect for the aliens is really intense.
So with that being said I am all for cysts being nerfed.
Cysts:
I think cysts need a much larger minimum distance drop distance. This change alone would reduce the amount of cysts in a room and mainly on harvesters. So instead of dropping 3-4 cysts on a node, it would be 2 cysts maximum.
I'm also in favor for the cysts to take more time to grow the further the way the are from the hive.
Flamethrowers:
No use for them in compmod at all. You can tamper with this gun all you like, its a niche that UWE wanted in the game and serves no purpose in comp. Id be fine with them being completely removed in all honesty.
Webs:
Who the fuck cares? lol
They don't slow down engagements only marine movement. I don't see reducing biomass levels for this ability to be any use at all. The engagements will still happen. And lifeforms will still get picked even with webbed marines. Its ONLY use is for jpers and thats it. Its very situational and shouldn't be dwelled upon.
HMGS:
I agree with the changes that were pushed for these. Increasing the time to research and cost to research is good.
Shotguns:
This isn't really for compmod but dear god, can somebody fix the hit reg on this pile of shit? All those 11 damage meat shots? Yea, fucking bullshit. Fuck it, fix hit reg in general. This change alone would bring a smile on my face and I wouldn't even give a flying fuck if webs were on biomass 1.
I'm down for any changes that reduces the amount of pve and keeps this game more in line with PVP.
I think we all have gotten used to the way this game is played out and it's not always fun. Too much pve still, the cyst spamming is getting out of control.
I'm not insinuating that biting or shooting down harvesters/extractors is bad. I don't want this game to turn into a shitty combat mode for comp. All I'm saying is that marines have to deal with alot more pve than the aliens do. Many games are determined by the first 3-5 engagements then its just pve killing from then on. No way to get back into the game and the snowball effect for the aliens is really intense.
So with that being said I am all for cysts being nerfed.
Cysts:
I think cysts need a much larger minimum distance drop distance. This change alone would reduce the amount of cysts in a room and mainly on harvesters. So instead of dropping 3-4 cysts on a node, it would be 2 cysts maximum.
I'm also in favor for the cysts to take more time to grow the further the way the are from the hive.
Flamethrowers:
No use for them in compmod at all. You can tamper with this gun all you like, its a niche that UWE wanted in the game and serves no purpose in comp. Id be fine with them being completely removed in all honesty.
Webs:
Who the fuck cares? lol
They don't slow down engagements only marine movement. I don't see reducing biomass levels for this ability to be any use at all. The engagements will still happen. And lifeforms will still get picked even with webbed marines. Its ONLY use is for jpers and thats it. Its very situational and shouldn't be dwelled upon.
HMGS:
I agree with the changes that were pushed for these. Increasing the time to research and cost to research is good.
Shotguns:
This isn't really for compmod but dear god, can somebody fix the hit reg on this pile of shit? All those 11 damage meat shots? Yea, fucking bullshit. Fuck it, fix hit reg in general. This change alone would bring a smile on my face and I wouldn't even give a flying fuck if webs were on biomass 1.
24 February 2015 - 16:07 EST
Unfortunetaly the PvE is the only way to make some sense in a khamm and NS2's alien res model. Otherwise you just redrop harvesters and click on a research button once in a while. So I think you might rather try to find a way to have interesting PvE / khamm abilities for aliens which don't turn out into annoying cyst/whip killing. And meh, I can't think of any. Or you have the balls to remove the khamm from competitive gaming, which would immediately end any intentions from CDT/UWE to port CompMod features into vanilla plus alter the game to an extent that it appears as a complete different game for viewers (and by that make it harder for new people to get into).
So schu, I guess you'll have to live with PvE ;)
So schu, I guess you'll have to live with PvE ;)
schu
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24 February 2015 - 17:15 EST
id rather fight 6 aliens than fight stationary pve targets.
The alien commander isnt going anywhere. But there is a way to make this game more fun for comp. Let's just dabble in the idea that crags/shades/whips/shifts were nerfed in hp to reduce the amount of pve killing. Along with cysts getting a nerf. Then let's look at what would change for the commander on aliens. He would be needed more on the field for sure to protect these fragile, but useful structures. Not such a bad idea imo.
If the alien comm was only used for bonewalls/rupture/expansion/dropping shit here or there and being on the field 70% of the time, i wouldn't complain.
I would rather fight the extra lifeform than pve. I think most of us can agree on that.
Nerf all support pve structures on aliens by 50% hp and see how the game evolves into more pvp and less pve. Just a thought
The alien commander isnt going anywhere. But there is a way to make this game more fun for comp. Let's just dabble in the idea that crags/shades/whips/shifts were nerfed in hp to reduce the amount of pve killing. Along with cysts getting a nerf. Then let's look at what would change for the commander on aliens. He would be needed more on the field for sure to protect these fragile, but useful structures. Not such a bad idea imo.
If the alien comm was only used for bonewalls/rupture/expansion/dropping shit here or there and being on the field 70% of the time, i wouldn't complain.
I would rather fight the extra lifeform than pve. I think most of us can agree on that.
Nerf all support pve structures on aliens by 50% hp and see how the game evolves into more pvp and less pve. Just a thought
25 February 2015 - 04:59 EST
I had another idea concerning the khamm:
Aliens don't have one khamm, but every of the 6 field players can enter khamm-mode at any time at any place on the map and gets the khamm interface (only one player at the time).
If a player is in khamm-mode his lifeform is stationary and vulnerable like he is afk.
Of course this would needs some serious re-balancing, since most of the time aliens have 6 players on the field.
I would help implementing this.
Aliens don't have one khamm, but every of the 6 field players can enter khamm-mode at any time at any place on the map and gets the khamm interface (only one player at the time).
If a player is in khamm-mode his lifeform is stationary and vulnerable like he is afk.
Of course this would needs some serious re-balancing, since most of the time aliens have 6 players on the field.
I would help implementing this.
25 February 2015 - 06:58 EST
As far as I can understand, the major problem is that alien comm is boring and inactive most of the time. What i personally love about the alien comm is, that the skill cap is very low, but they theory cap is very high. Every decision must be weighed and considered, as every action delays another. The decision to go for another crag somewhere is huge, after you already dropped around 3 pieces of PVE. Medpacking for the marine comm has a similar challenge, while the medpacks and other drops can pose a higher skill challenge, and alot bigger impact on the field than any action the alien comm. can dream of.
I tried to sleep yesterday but this thought kept me up for hours. Get your yes-hat on!
I tried to think of how the zerg APM was used in SC2 - looking apart from army movement and combat (which is replaced by other players in NS2) I tried to think of the infrastucture. Constant queen injects, making additional larvae - this is boring and already automated in NS2. Creep spread is already done in ns2. Structures are very few for zerg so nothing really there either. The thought of the queen and the utility tickled me though. Other units with alot of utility is the sentry. Shielding and forcefields. But mainly - these utility features requires micromanagement.
TL:DR: Drifters can fill alot of utility purposes. Imagine a match with the alien commander micromanaging 2-5 small drifters, for building, combat, and resbiting. Making sure that the resbiters can finish maybe 5 seconds earlier (down from 38 seconds) because of some enzyme, that the lerks flying around are yelling at the comm to get some mucus on them before they engage they engage the two marines building a PG. Maybe even have the drifter attach to a lifeform as a babbler, making rushes more efficient, and having a higher effect on alien econ, just like marine comms have to spam meds on rushes.
The current drifter is expensive, and any more than 2 is a vast overkill and will slow upgrades and stuff that the Khara really needs down considerably. Make the unit more responsive, right now it takes so long even to just turn, making micromanaging drifters feel really unsatisfying. Make the unit cheaper. 2 Tres, 1/4 the HP, half the size, 1 Tres per ability, or maybe even just use energy, that is only regened slowly unless you are near a shift. Nerf the abilities, but make them strong enough just to give a slight edge, just as medpacks do. Alien comms would be able to stand out on excellent drifter management, just as marine comms do on meds.
I tried to sleep yesterday but this thought kept me up for hours. Get your yes-hat on!
I tried to think of how the zerg APM was used in SC2 - looking apart from army movement and combat (which is replaced by other players in NS2) I tried to think of the infrastucture. Constant queen injects, making additional larvae - this is boring and already automated in NS2. Creep spread is already done in ns2. Structures are very few for zerg so nothing really there either. The thought of the queen and the utility tickled me though. Other units with alot of utility is the sentry. Shielding and forcefields. But mainly - these utility features requires micromanagement.
TL:DR: Drifters can fill alot of utility purposes. Imagine a match with the alien commander micromanaging 2-5 small drifters, for building, combat, and resbiting. Making sure that the resbiters can finish maybe 5 seconds earlier (down from 38 seconds) because of some enzyme, that the lerks flying around are yelling at the comm to get some mucus on them before they engage they engage the two marines building a PG. Maybe even have the drifter attach to a lifeform as a babbler, making rushes more efficient, and having a higher effect on alien econ, just like marine comms have to spam meds on rushes.
The current drifter is expensive, and any more than 2 is a vast overkill and will slow upgrades and stuff that the Khara really needs down considerably. Make the unit more responsive, right now it takes so long even to just turn, making micromanaging drifters feel really unsatisfying. Make the unit cheaper. 2 Tres, 1/4 the HP, half the size, 1 Tres per ability, or maybe even just use energy, that is only regened slowly unless you are near a shift. Nerf the abilities, but make them strong enough just to give a slight edge, just as medpacks do. Alien comms would be able to stand out on excellent drifter management, just as marine comms do on meds.
"It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, despite as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope" - J.R.R. Tolkien
25 February 2015 - 08:07 EST
I agree with ixian. I generally like the idea of making the use of combat drifters less punishing to promote that. Maybe some stuff needs to be balanced then but it would raise the skill ceiling of the alien comm and make it more interesting to play
rantology
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25 February 2015 - 09:40 EST
Dragon has updated Cmod with the latest changes! You can check out the doc here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zakk3sA3baVwrGThn_xSrOF3BSSBRajrNdQGkdG28Qc/edit
(webs are a bit buggy atm and the hand grenade changes are not in yet)
(webs are a bit buggy atm and the hand grenade changes are not in yet)
25 February 2015 - 10:08 EST
Still very easy to quad cyst RTs - quint cyst is however now impossible.
Tried to cyst tram northside from server in comp mod, and compared it to the current pub patch. The difference is huge. Almost too huge. Its like a minute in difference or something along those lines. With this cyst system server spawn has been hugely nerfed, and it will become near impossible to hold ore or ware, unless you get a gorge. And gorges have already been Pres nerfed. Recysting harvesters is going to be impossible, and marines can leave harvesters at 40-50% (21% before for a cyst to recyst a harvester in time) and just leave them to death.
Lets see how it plays out, but with this quick revision it seems like a very hard nerf, and a HUGE difference from public gaming. The latter might be the biggest problem.
Tried to cyst tram northside from server in comp mod, and compared it to the current pub patch. The difference is huge. Almost too huge. Its like a minute in difference or something along those lines. With this cyst system server spawn has been hugely nerfed, and it will become near impossible to hold ore or ware, unless you get a gorge. And gorges have already been Pres nerfed. Recysting harvesters is going to be impossible, and marines can leave harvesters at 40-50% (21% before for a cyst to recyst a harvester in time) and just leave them to death.
Lets see how it plays out, but with this quick revision it seems like a very hard nerf, and a HUGE difference from public gaming. The latter might be the biggest problem.
"It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, despite as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope" - J.R.R. Tolkien
25 February 2015 - 10:17 EST
Or a Hive.
Will this lead to earlier Hive-Drops? Would that be good or bad?
25 February 2015 - 10:30 EST
I think the marine comm should be massively nerfed, he can win a game by himself, over powered 100% accuracy meds, crazy div maximus premium 360 winning calls and over 65% lmg log out. That's OP as fuck.
So I propose 3 things:
Meds should spawn randomly around the marine.
Comm's mic should be muted randomly through a round. (Have to test a 30s value might be fine what do you think?)
Comm's lmg should have recoil. (Let's be honest the lmg is really unskilled we need some form of recoil control on that shit).
So I propose 3 things:
Meds should spawn randomly around the marine.
Comm's mic should be muted randomly through a round. (Have to test a 30s value might be fine what do you think?)
Comm's lmg should have recoil. (Let's be honest the lmg is really unskilled we need some form of recoil control on that shit).
rantology
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25 February 2015 - 12:02 EST
Talking with dragon, a few details on the way the cyst build times work: It's based on pathing distance- they have a min build time of 5 sec (this is the vanilla rate) and can get increased to a max time of 15 sec. These values are a starting point and can be subject to change as feedback roles in... server hive does get hit sort of hard due to the pathing, but it also has access to one of the easiest expansion hives in the game... so I think we'll have to see how it play out/ feels.
Also just thinking out loud here, but since theoretically a ballooning alien economy will be easier / more predictable to control, this might also open the door to increasing medpack costs to 1.5 or something.
In response to drifter stuff: The drifter abilities imo are about as nerfed as you can make them while still keeping them worth using. No one would even bother if they were nerfed any further. As for the turn rates- there was a point where Sewlek had them incredibly agile with high(er) turn speeds... this ended up being a source of frustration for marine players because this allowed khamms to zig-zag them in your face while aliens engaged (and you couldn't even try to kill them because you would waste far too many bullets while not even getting the kill on it in the end). That's how drifters ended up being the way they are at the moment. Drifter tres cost however is something that can be changed without any real repercussions - so maybe if needed we can do that. The size and HP change ideas are also very interesting.
Also just thinking out loud here, but since theoretically a ballooning alien economy will be easier / more predictable to control, this might also open the door to increasing medpack costs to 1.5 or something.
In response to drifter stuff: The drifter abilities imo are about as nerfed as you can make them while still keeping them worth using. No one would even bother if they were nerfed any further. As for the turn rates- there was a point where Sewlek had them incredibly agile with high(er) turn speeds... this ended up being a source of frustration for marine players because this allowed khamms to zig-zag them in your face while aliens engaged (and you couldn't even try to kill them because you would waste far too many bullets while not even getting the kill on it in the end). That's how drifters ended up being the way they are at the moment. Drifter tres cost however is something that can be changed without any real repercussions - so maybe if needed we can do that. The size and HP change ideas are also very interesting.
25 February 2015 - 13:28 EST
Right now drifters is great risk - great reward. If it would be low risk (better movement, less Tres Cost for drifter and abilities) then the reward would be lower too. This would however give the alien comm plenty to do, with microing several "smaller" drifters, and boost his aliens, as the commander does his marines.
"It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, despite as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope" - J.R.R. Tolkien
25 February 2015 - 13:35 EST
I was on a sandbox server with compmod_R4 and according to the armory granades are still 3 pres
25 February 2015 - 13:54 EST
I want to see this. To hold the frustation low for marines, slow down the speed of the drifter. Try to fix it smth that comm can fool the marines to deny damage, instead of making it hard to hit because of the high speed. This would feel more like competitive play imo.
25 February 2015 - 15:36 EST
Are we not doing anything with Exos? Just making it even quicker to rush them with cheaper Protolabs? I think they're damage and speed need to be nerfed as mentioned earlier. Something at least.
rantology
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25 February 2015 - 16:06 EST
There's been an extremely low amount of feedback for exos, so nothing was planned for them. On paper they are very effective but I've yet to really see them widely utilized outside of the occasional gimmick-y game...
They are so squishy at the moment a speed or damage nerf would probably put them into permanent disuse.
They are so squishy at the moment a speed or damage nerf would probably put them into permanent disuse.
25 February 2015 - 16:17 EST
I wouldn't mind cheaper drifters that have slower speed. Keep everything else the same. Would be useful for more scouting/micromanagement to assist the aliens mid-game when there are less skulks to parasite.
25 February 2015 - 17:26 EST
Cheaper drifters would simply cause them to devolve and become distractions like they once were. If a drifter were half cost or less, I would have no problem sending one in early to bait bullets and fill marines faces with the drifters ass if they decide not to shoot. This used to happen frequently when they were more agile. The only thing stopping that from being more common now is the cost.
One way around it may be if they moved much slower for a time after taking damage and they were a lot closer to the ground instead of basically marine eye level? I'm not sure if something in the game requires them to float so high.
On the subject of cysts and alien PvE in general, I feel as if we keep trying to put a bandaid on it instead of solving the cause. Alien commanders simply don't have many tools off of infestation. Bone wall and rupture are only used when marines push. If marines clear cysts or don't push that leaves four choices for res: Upgrades, PvE, Drifter, and cysts.
The first is situational due to either timing (no need for early onos upgrades despite two being on hive one) or necessity (not all upgrades are created equal and some are just downright forgettable); the price between different upgrades rarely being taken in to consideration.
This usually leaves you with the other three choices, all of which marine players find annoying to some degree and believe me they aren't that much more interesting for commanders either. Weakening these doesn't solve the problem that the commander needs more active things to be doing. Being out of the hive is fine and all, but I'd rather be helping my team from above than across the map biting extractors asking a respawner to drop a shell in the hive. Give us more options for ways to expend resources and I'm sure you'll see less PvE, cysts and drifter spam as a result. Treat the disease, not the symptom.
I've been struggling for good ideas on how to accomplish that for a while now and if anyone out there has any of their own, free to post them here.
Apologies for formatting and rambling. Posted from phone.
One way around it may be if they moved much slower for a time after taking damage and they were a lot closer to the ground instead of basically marine eye level? I'm not sure if something in the game requires them to float so high.
On the subject of cysts and alien PvE in general, I feel as if we keep trying to put a bandaid on it instead of solving the cause. Alien commanders simply don't have many tools off of infestation. Bone wall and rupture are only used when marines push. If marines clear cysts or don't push that leaves four choices for res: Upgrades, PvE, Drifter, and cysts.
The first is situational due to either timing (no need for early onos upgrades despite two being on hive one) or necessity (not all upgrades are created equal and some are just downright forgettable); the price between different upgrades rarely being taken in to consideration.
This usually leaves you with the other three choices, all of which marine players find annoying to some degree and believe me they aren't that much more interesting for commanders either. Weakening these doesn't solve the problem that the commander needs more active things to be doing. Being out of the hive is fine and all, but I'd rather be helping my team from above than across the map biting extractors asking a respawner to drop a shell in the hive. Give us more options for ways to expend resources and I'm sure you'll see less PvE, cysts and drifter spam as a result. Treat the disease, not the symptom.
I've been struggling for good ideas on how to accomplish that for a while now and if anyone out there has any of their own, free to post them here.
Apologies for formatting and rambling. Posted from phone.
25 February 2015 - 18:10 EST
As I stated before, I think it needs something for Alien-Coms, which asks for spot-on timing and accuracy. The ideas i posted there had been wild and crazy, but something along those lines, which makes more sense could help the core problem maybe...
I can guess only, but probably this lies way outside the scope of a CompMod?
I can guess only, but probably this lies way outside the scope of a CompMod?
rantology
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25 February 2015 - 20:53 EST
That's usually the conundrum we circle back to with these theories. To fix the alien comm issues you would need something -drastic-. In one way or the other (making comm more prevalent or removing it, either way you would need something extreme).
That's usually where the community is split and no one can make up their mind on exactly what to add or remove - and subsequently one of the primary reasons either of these options have never been introduced to compmod.
So @simba, virsoul and any other commanders that want to chime in- what would be the actual goal of the drifter changes? I'm guessing making them cheaper allows you to go deeper into the map with them to do things like offensive pressure for something less than an 8-tres penalty for it, but that would in turn probably warrant some other changes, like perhaps hp nerf, or maybe some kind of on-damage slowdown, or making them smaller and/or closer to the floor so they aren't as obnoxious when inevitably the kham tries to blind marines with this newly dispensable drifter cost. And in the end would that even make a big enough difference to be worth it?
That's usually where the community is split and no one can make up their mind on exactly what to add or remove - and subsequently one of the primary reasons either of these options have never been introduced to compmod.
So @simba, virsoul and any other commanders that want to chime in- what would be the actual goal of the drifter changes? I'm guessing making them cheaper allows you to go deeper into the map with them to do things like offensive pressure for something less than an 8-tres penalty for it, but that would in turn probably warrant some other changes, like perhaps hp nerf, or maybe some kind of on-damage slowdown, or making them smaller and/or closer to the floor so they aren't as obnoxious when inevitably the kham tries to blind marines with this newly dispensable drifter cost. And in the end would that even make a big enough difference to be worth it?
26 February 2015 - 00:39 EST
There isn't a huge end-goal with tweaking the drifter other than to create new situations that we may use them. Even with these changes, I don't see drifter support being more valuable than having another player on the field in most cases. Early game you can't afford to lose drifters, let alone use a lot of abilities and later you're usually heavy on lifeforms and the commander is typically one of the only player capable of hitting extractors. The one notable exception to the rule is attacks of opportunity with the majority or whole team where drifter support shines.
I would rather drifters be removed from the game entirely. They're clunky, have been re-purposed and re-balanced several times, and (aside from occasional quirkiness) are not fun or interesting to use. I would like a purpose for being in the hive other than moving PvE really slowly away from enagements and spamming clouds.
I think the underling problem to improving on the alien commander though is the lifeforms. Unlike marines, lifeforms can perform mostly autonomously from the khamm. I don't mean by voice communication, but from in game influence. If you wanted to give more power or influence to the role, you would have to make lifeforms weaker to compensate and I doubt anyone is dying for that to happen. To give an example, imagine if the game were balanced so that the marine commander didn't have access to medpacks; marines just naturally had a little more health or ability to deal with incoming damage either through first aid kits, shields, dash maneuvers, etc. It's unlikely that the community would favor a change to make marines weaker/slower and give the commander the ability to use meds and cats like the game currently stands.
I want the ability to bolster my team globally the way the meds, ammo, cats, scans, nano and beacon allow me. Individual buffs for teammates that could include one's similar to drifter abilities to make it easy and allow for the idea of others given the void in dumb pathing, clumsy drifters.
I would rather drifters be removed from the game entirely. They're clunky, have been re-purposed and re-balanced several times, and (aside from occasional quirkiness) are not fun or interesting to use. I would like a purpose for being in the hive other than moving PvE really slowly away from enagements and spamming clouds.
I think the underling problem to improving on the alien commander though is the lifeforms. Unlike marines, lifeforms can perform mostly autonomously from the khamm. I don't mean by voice communication, but from in game influence. If you wanted to give more power or influence to the role, you would have to make lifeforms weaker to compensate and I doubt anyone is dying for that to happen. To give an example, imagine if the game were balanced so that the marine commander didn't have access to medpacks; marines just naturally had a little more health or ability to deal with incoming damage either through first aid kits, shields, dash maneuvers, etc. It's unlikely that the community would favor a change to make marines weaker/slower and give the commander the ability to use meds and cats like the game currently stands.
I want the ability to bolster my team globally the way the meds, ammo, cats, scans, nano and beacon allow me. Individual buffs for teammates that could include one's similar to drifter abilities to make it easy and allow for the idea of others given the void in dumb pathing, clumsy drifters.
26 February 2015 - 05:45 EST
@drifters. Virsoul has some very interessting perspectives as to how a revamped drifter wouldn't work, mainly the bullet sponge. These are all real problems but i see a way around them. The idea behind this drifter idea is mainly to combat the boredom of the alien comm.
To talk about specific numbers. drifters could be
2-4 Tres
Half size
50 hp (no bullet sponge, must come in after combat is initated, forcing a utility role. If the alien comm wants to mass drifters in before a fight, it would be just like medspam, and not at all in the interrest in the alien comm. one could also set the population for drifters to like 40, allowing only 5 tops at any given moment, if no pve is present on the map at all)
1 Tres abilities (hugely nerfed but for "everyday" use - larger AoE or single target)
Pathing and responsiveness "boost" (making drifters feel more usefull)
reasearchable ability to attach a drifter to a lifeform just as a babbler. (bio 1 - allows for more all-in rushes)
reasearchable upgrades for f.ex health, speed, abilities, build speed
Whereas Virsoul sees the commander mid- and lategame jumping out of the hive to help with resbiting, enzyme would speed up anyone who does it. It would/should be more favorable to stay in the hive, as one could also defend, use hive abilities, and help with other engagements. It is on creep and off creep comm support. What I like most about this, is that it is a different skill set from the marine comm.
The idea is not perfect, and as Virsoul pointed out, it might be treating the symptome rather than the decease.
To talk about specific numbers. drifters could be
2-4 Tres
Half size
50 hp (no bullet sponge, must come in after combat is initated, forcing a utility role. If the alien comm wants to mass drifters in before a fight, it would be just like medspam, and not at all in the interrest in the alien comm. one could also set the population for drifters to like 40, allowing only 5 tops at any given moment, if no pve is present on the map at all)
1 Tres abilities (hugely nerfed but for "everyday" use - larger AoE or single target)
Pathing and responsiveness "boost" (making drifters feel more usefull)
reasearchable ability to attach a drifter to a lifeform just as a babbler. (bio 1 - allows for more all-in rushes)
reasearchable upgrades for f.ex health, speed, abilities, build speed
Whereas Virsoul sees the commander mid- and lategame jumping out of the hive to help with resbiting, enzyme would speed up anyone who does it. It would/should be more favorable to stay in the hive, as one could also defend, use hive abilities, and help with other engagements. It is on creep and off creep comm support. What I like most about this, is that it is a different skill set from the marine comm.
The idea is not perfect, and as Virsoul pointed out, it might be treating the symptome rather than the decease.
"It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, despite as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope" - J.R.R. Tolkien
26 February 2015 - 08:26 EST
About the FT, is it really back to vanilla ? Cause I still need around 7 sec to empty my can instead of around 14 in vanilla. That would say same damage in half time for the compmod FT ...
Actually we experienced some FT hive rush in our last night training session. The hive went down reaaaally fast.
Actually we experienced some FT hive rush in our last night training session. The hive went down reaaaally fast.
NS2 quotes :
"We need an exo ! With gatling and shit !"
"C'mon Onos ! Move your fat ass !"
"I need a medical bag"
"Dude ! Grab your balls and let's push maintenance !"
"We need an exo ! With gatling and shit !"
"C'mon Onos ! Move your fat ass !"
"I need a medical bag"
"Dude ! Grab your balls and let's push maintenance !"
26 February 2015 - 08:56 EST
For the problems that commanders can't use that much abilities outside of infestation I would actually add to ixians drifter changes that a drifter can spawn infestation like contamination but just quicker and not in a smaller radius. I imagine the mechanic similar in how overlords in SC2 can spawn creep (so the drifters have to remain at that position using that skill constantly otherwise the infestation would disappear)
schu
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26 February 2015 - 09:00 EST
remove alien commander
gorges build everything
add RFK
add bunnyhopping
fixed
gorges build everything
add RFK
add bunnyhopping
fixed
26 February 2015 - 10:10 EST
Remove aliens
Remove commanders
Add terrorists
Add bombsites
Fixed
schu
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26 February 2015 - 10:13 EST
marine vs terrorists doesn't sound too bad, better than marines vs stationary pve targets
I agree with virsoul
I agree with virsoul
26 February 2015 - 12:32 EST
I think the fundamental difference of alien vs. marine comm has its roots in the speed-difference of the fieldplayers. Imagine you had to drop alien lifeforms health in the same way as marines comms do. The skill ceiling would be astronomical (try to track a fade with medpacks).
I think this is why the NS2 alien comm has been designed playing more the role of a gardener: Making sure his aliens have places to heal, have all needed upgrades and have the max. possible income of PRes.
Drifter abilities seem like an attempt to make the alien comm more like the marine comm. But they have an ultimate flaw: While the marine comm has the freedom of dropping meds out of the sky, the alien comm needs drifters for that, which are slower than his lifeforms! So alien comm needs to anticipate major engagements and get a drifter in position before (!) the engagment happens, but also not too soon, because then the drifter is dead.
So, if one wanted to make the alien comm less of a gardener, and more of an engagement supporter: I would say let the "Drifter abilities" drop from the sky like on marines. I think the mechanic that enzyme, mucous and [shade ability] work in a radius (instead of punctual like medpacks) should be kept, in order to be able to even hit fast-moving aliens with them.
If one wanted to make the alien comms gardener role more fun to play, I'd say:
1A. - Get rid of drifters, enable Auto-build
1B. - Make drifters like drones in starcraft (they become the structure)
additional Option for 1A, 1B:
- The farther away from hive you build, the longer it takes (this would buff shift echo and gorge play)
2. - De-couple PvE abilties from Hive type, i.e. Echo, Healwave and Ink work always!
I think this is why the NS2 alien comm has been designed playing more the role of a gardener: Making sure his aliens have places to heal, have all needed upgrades and have the max. possible income of PRes.
Drifter abilities seem like an attempt to make the alien comm more like the marine comm. But they have an ultimate flaw: While the marine comm has the freedom of dropping meds out of the sky, the alien comm needs drifters for that, which are slower than his lifeforms! So alien comm needs to anticipate major engagements and get a drifter in position before (!) the engagment happens, but also not too soon, because then the drifter is dead.
So, if one wanted to make the alien comm less of a gardener, and more of an engagement supporter: I would say let the "Drifter abilities" drop from the sky like on marines. I think the mechanic that enzyme, mucous and [shade ability] work in a radius (instead of punctual like medpacks) should be kept, in order to be able to even hit fast-moving aliens with them.
If one wanted to make the alien comms gardener role more fun to play, I'd say:
1A. - Get rid of drifters, enable Auto-build
1B. - Make drifters like drones in starcraft (they become the structure)
additional Option for 1A, 1B:
- The farther away from hive you build, the longer it takes (this would buff shift echo and gorge play)
2. - De-couple PvE abilties from Hive type, i.e. Echo, Healwave and Ink work always!