Deja vu?!

Something like that, yeah..

baguettes !

rendez-vous

pistolín

name "Mike is NOT REALLY FRENCH ._."

its funny. sherpa did a better job at predicting on his own than 3 people together...

"its funny. sherpa did a better job at predicting on his own than 3 people together..."

yeah. social life ftl.

It's funny how people who contribute nothing still take it upon themselves to point fault in others efforts.

dont accept responsabilities only to seem cool on the internet if u cannot handle it ftw :/

It's good to know I'm still the king, president and dictator of predictions.

It's good to know you're dumb

"dont accept responsabilities only to seem cool on the internet if u cannot handle it ftw :/"

WTF?! Yeh doing preds makes you "cool"...

1. Social life? It takes like 1-2 hours a *week* (though at the rate matches are being played this season- every 2 weeks) to do predictions from the Prem + lower leagues together!

2.

lump i wasnt offending you or any other predictor wen i said that. I was merely trying to say the truth. Your doing a fine job. I know that you have a life tho. :

"dont accept responsabilities only to seem cool on the internet if u cannot handle it ftw :/ "

ummm. yeah. dont make comments to look cool on the internet if you dont know what ur talking about.

exams>ns

Yeh man, gotta watch out for your SAT exams. Oh and predictions take 15 minutes to write.

saneno

"1. Social life? It takes like 1-2 hours a *week* (though at the rate matches are being played this season- every 2 weeks) to do predictions from the Prem + lower leagues together!"

3 'two-map' demo's to watch takes about 6 hours, then writing them takes about an hour as it takes a bit of effort to get gramma and so on sorted and sorting out the code for the post takes a tad of effort. 7 hours is a large amount of time.

The old system for pred making which Fana did in ENSL season 1 took 3 guys to do the prem, each doing 2 preds which reduces time a lot.

Even if you are a dead zombie, you can still get laid.

CAUSE THATS NOT RANDOM WAT SO EVER. :x

"1. Social life? It takes like 1-2 hours a *week* (though at the rate matches are being played this season- every 2 weeks) to do predictions from the Prem + lower leagues together!"

Yeah well you have to play more or less constantly to maintain your (not your doh!1) skillz.

Lower division matches are quite unpredictable or you have to follow their game pretty closely (watch a lot of matches which is quite time consuming).

You all horrible fucking time management, we're supposed to be in week 4 of the league and you've not even made predictions for week 2. You've had time to sit around here and tard around with people like zamma so you have no excuse for not being able to write predictions on time. It takes 15 minutes, you have to write 6 paragraphs on 4 teams and most predictions take a template anyway:

team X tied team Y, team A beat team B, team B looked good team Y looked bad heres some random player info throw in a few map facts have a conclusion.

grr week 5 not done week 3.

i like Insane vs. s&m preds. theyre cool.

I agree with ben! stop tarding around with me :x

If I'm able to write predictions on time every week even when I was sick of predicting, so are you. There is no excuse! (although I am of the opinion that people that don't do something to improve the situation themselves have no right to whine :\)

jp: Puh-lease, my ENSL predictions were rubbish compared to my high quality GO predictions and Nations Cup predictions on Amped News (back when I still found predicting to be fun). Go back to ns predicting school!

lump: "The old system for pred making which Fana did in ENSL season 1 took 3 guys to do the prem, each doing 2 preds which reduces time a lot."

Actually it took a lot longer than just writing them myself because I had to wait around for all the lazy deadbeats (:P) like yourself that always finished their preds at the last minute. Not to mention the fact that the preds I wrote by myself were more than enough to cover an entire week. We did 2 preds each because predicting your own match is fucking stupid for obvious reasons.

I AM THE KING ALL HAIL

"3 'two-map' demo's to watch takes about 6 hours, then writing them takes about an hour as it takes a bit of effort to get gramma and so on sorted and sorting out the code for the post takes a tad of effort. 7 hours is a large amount of time."

I didn't say match reports only need a few minutes- I only said that about predictions. And IIRC, it was benjie who said he'd do reports- and he's doing A-levels, which means he has about 140 hours a week free.

Fana: Okay maybe I never really got past writing predictions without my "L plates" on. I'll always remember telling people some months ago "watch out for talis, he is pro with SG! listen to me ok i'm the ownage predictor!" then watched him get taken out by the first skulk. Vittu.

P.S. It's in the EU PTs best interests to start getting involved in the behind-the-scenes stuff again (i.e. start posting on the forums). It's in your best interests if you like your golden skulk.

I'm talking about predictions, I can't see the point in doing predictions if I haven't seen how the teams are performing recently in league games. Might as well just be writing random numbers down.

ill be a predictor !

praise jesus

I fell for it.

I now have TeamJesus.com in my web history.

You fucking cunt, Bob.

Seriously buy their merchandise, it's great! They're our new sponsors now and we only get cash if you buy. :(

jp: was that pt comment directed at me? If yes: I quit PT like 8 months ago.

Seeing you reminded me of the EUPT situation, Fana; but it was drected to all PTs.

I won't go into too much detail (eventually, puzl WILL read this, and accordingly, he'll shout at me a lot for giving warning when really I shouldn't be) suffice to say that there are only a couple of EUPTS who post on the forums.

On the plus side, I imagine a clean up would let the current crop of players be selected for PT. It's about time and only fair, I guess.

If you want the PT experience just join an american server, play combat, give someone a suggestion and see where it gets you.

where is my icon sherpa, WHERE IS IT!?

How the fuck did wiggles get a pt icon :x.

bah.

Zamma: I *think* that Wiggles has a brother who's a PT, and he just used his account. Don't quote me on that, though.

Pantsu: I put your name down on the EUPT list on Dec 10. Since then, you've been backed up by 2 other EUPTs (it's very democratic: a PT puts a player's name down, then if that name gets positive responses from other PTs, Wither will check him out then invite him into the program IF an EUPT is needed).

But for obvious reasons the people in charge haven't had the chance to add/drop any current PTs. At the end of the day, we help test beta versions, we don't really know many "in house" secrets, and there's a bit of a delay in this due to the website downtime.

Don't hold your breath, anyhow. I was on the list for nearly 2 years before I was offered to join (though that was during the peak of popularity, when the current EUPTs actually helped playtest...)

PTing was the most boring service to the NS community I ever did. The only bug I found (scanning an area makes motion tracking not work until the scan ends in the area affected) was never fixed, and probably just forgotten by now. I will admit that I was a bit unlucky with my PT time though, seeing as though there were PTs maybe once a month on average.

cant quit just yet then

wasze mamy ruchał pies.

ruchal *

i think kec.ns should be added to the poll tbh xxx

I give up with NS :(

c u next season

none of those clans featured in the poll have had me on their lineup, therefore the whole thing is pointless

Shut up, scrub.

best ever EU team? and u put team new rope on there? leal

i hope you realise that tn was the most wide assortment of all-star players to date (in the eu scene)

Who else would you of put there? bP maybe. destroyer? syrng? though they're no more deserving than TN. Melody? Ariadne? Fastswitch? Fek?

While TN was an all-star team that possibly had the best player etc, it really didnt last long enough. Was more "all-star" than "team".

I guess it deserves a place there though considering it contains some of the better players from many of the other clans mentioned in the poll.

One thing is agreed TN has a very good assortment of probably the best players in the EU scene at the time. This was how they could stomp any other team. Unfortunately I would still not rate them the best EU team because they died too soon. TN had potential to be an undefeatable team. All they needed was more experience and teamwork with each other.

But yeah tbh skyice. you are rong tn could have easily become one of the best EU teams. Maybe it kinda is?

yeh but they didn't win all their rounds or anything to make them a super all star team or anything, you see how they have 0 votes? compare them to like tronic who won pretty much most games they played.

Well TN only played 6 rounds in the official arena and won 5 and beat both the finalists of ENSL season 2. That's the same as "pretty much most games they played."

#care

yes you won 1 official game against storm, and storm won xxxx pcws against tn... plz.

and yeah like bob said #care

this season has so crashed and burned :/

what season hasnt? Dont think this is the last one though, but the end is drawing near!! HEAR YE HEAR YE!! JUDGEMENT IS COMING!

ITS BEACUSE KNIFE CAUSED DRAMA

...

"Well TN only played 6 rounds in the official arena and won 5 and beat both the finalists of ENSL season 2. That's the same as "pretty much most games they played.""

and then folded... yeh easily more suitable to put in than a team like tronic or LoG xDD

Don't call for the end just yet, some of the less clans are definately taking steps up in their play.

armless lol

aA: You're right, good job pointing that out. Not only did TN devastate storm 2-0 in a hilariously easy game, but TN also won more pcws against storm than storm won against TN. In fact, the only pcws storm ever won against TN were TNs first two pcws ever, and TNs first two pcws after over two weeks of inactivity. Game, set, match.

lump: loller, Tronic made a concious effort to play as many bad teams they could as often they could to make their irc topic pcw stats look better. They were good though, no doubt.

Team Newrope was in no way the best team ever in Europe, although it kind of depends on what criterias you're looking at.

Knife stomps any other team on that list for a range of reasons, and the only other team to even come close is torment. The fact that torment is in the lead proves that people love nostalgia though, which is cool. It doesn't really matter though, when people answer these polls they usually don't reason, they just click whatever alternative they associate with happy-go-fun-times.

Other teams that deserve to be on that list are for example Ariadne (who actually won a tournament, unlike RaB, DW and BM) and Blind Fury.

Also please fix ENSL next season. This is the third season of divisions going shit during the middle of the season. Want to guess how many times I've predicted this? That's right, three times.

Solution: Bigger divisions, amongst other things. Check out my forum posts in the thread started by lump.

Well i'll disagree with some of that. A lot of people voting for knife are going to be voting on nostalgia too. Whilst you're current lineup thanks to your new additions is certainly a trifle good, I think you'll agree it's weaker than the knife that won clanbase and UGL and thats probably the knife they're voting for.

To say knife stomps any team despite your list of honors would be a touch naive. The honours you won weren't without difficulty, EOD took you to a tiebreaker and BM did beat you in UGL and did top the group. Also by your own admission knife before ENSL finals "Actually we're as good as we've ever been" and lessthanthree did beat you leaving our official match record with you at 1 win, 1 loss and 1 draw. A fairly even spread, you can't put us being able to win 6 rounds -the same number you won againust us- in official matches down to bad luck on your part. The fact that you may of won many pcws whilst we rarely did is irrelevant, all that says to me is that we brought the goods when it actually mattered.

I think knife have left the biggest legacy -if you want to call it that- of clans in recent times, i'd not go as far as to say what you're saying though :)

Rarely won pcws? Never is the word you're looking for. In fact, most of the time you refused to even play us. The "as good as we've ever been" comment isn't really relevant because I couldn't have predicted the future. We completely fell apart that week, losing to lessthanthree and then to terror, not to mention failing in a lot of pcws against inferior clans before dying. Before that week we were dominating in every pcw and official we played, with the sole exception of our week 1 match against <3.

I don't put losing to <3 down to bad luck, but I do put it down to a combination of chance (not luck), timing and me. Chance because a lot of shit happened that was outside our control during that match, timing because the match came at a bad time when a lot of people in knife were losing interest, and me because I single handedly lost our alien round on veil, which would've put us at 2-0 after that map Anyway like I said several times in the past, kudos to you, you were certainly not undecerving of the victory.

EoD took us completely by surprise, and kudos to them. I really have no explanation why they suddenly got good (ask me for demos from our go group stages match against them about a month earlier) or possibly us bad. The match against BM in the UGL group stages was a farce. We were in the middle of a huge roster crisis, with 5 active players on our roster and barely scraped together enough players for the match. after tieing 1-1 zallvan had to leave, and we were seconds away from playing 5-6 when castoors showed up. The last round was extremely close with Knife's second hive going up during BM's hive assault, and BM only managed to get it down by a massive suicide rush. Not to mention the fact that we didn't get to play marine because of UGL's stupid tie breaker rules, ending the match 2-1 in BM's favour.

Wow this is flailing wildly off topic. Here are my relevant points to why Knife is the top european team of all time:

1. No other clan has ever dominated (been the best clan in europe) the europe for as long as Knife.
2. No other clan has ever had as many different amazing players as Knife (look at the roster section and past players on knifegaming.com, it's a veritable hall of fame).
3. No other clan has ever won as many titles as Knife.
4. No other clan has ever gone undefeated in pcws for as long as Knife (Torment and KTDM come close).
5. No other clan has ever had as much varied and strong competition as Knife and still come out on top (Debatable, some people will claim that after 2.01 the clan scene went to shit but I disagree. Torment comes close).
6. No other clan has ever won as many official matches as Knife.

I could probably think up some more if I had the time, but now I have to run to do more silly crap for the norwegian army.

Yeah btw. Skill is in my mind irrelevant (although I would argue that Knife is overall the top skilled team in Europe of all time as well) because skill is relative. Different versions and evolving styles of playing make it very difficult indeed to compare skill.

Also I do realize I'm blatantly biased in this matter, but it's not like anyone else is going to argue for me.

Wow crazy 4 post spam assault ok running now.

calm down fana...

I think the top tier clans in the past were a lot closer drawn as the clan scene was stronger.. more recent clans have slowly and slowly been increasing in dominance because of top players slowly dropping off before helping out the lesser.

There'll be a burst of like 1 month where 4 good clans are battling but there were times of a good 10 top clans having a good battle if playing each other, atleast.

your comment is dated the 12/07/05. The day of the final. GAME SET AND MATCH BENNY BOY BWAHAHHA :D:D

ps we didn't refuse to play you, we just thought not letting you practiser was funnier than our pcws.

who cares about pcw results anyway?

i think fana needs a paper bag

Fana, how many words can you write when you REALLY care?

*words per minute

YUS FANA YOU'RE THE BEST, OK? CALM DOWN NOW?!

nah let him keep going.. this is funny.

I thought Fana quit NS? ... let go yeh?

Fana's right with one of his multitude of points: it's all relative.

If I go by who spanked me the hardest, I'd vote for ariadne.
If I go by the most cohesive team, I'd vote for knife.
If I go by legendary reputation, I'd vote for torment.

But leave PCWs out of it- it's the kind of thing that clans with a less positive reputation moan about.

*cough* http://nsleague.com/match.php?mid=1013 *cough*

Grunts might not realise that leaders have to frequently field a weaker team in a PCW to keep the players who aren't in the first team happy (way back in the day when players were in clans for the challenge of competitive play, and not to moan about other players). Then of course PCWs are for experimentation- just as one tactic may work, another may fall flat on its face.

etc.

And to the guys taking the piss: You all expect a fascinating and highly challenging competitive scene to be handed to you on a plate. It's people like Fana who put effort in to give you leagues.

Remove people like him and who are you left with to give you the clan scene? The NSGN crew? (Apologies for using you people as an example, but it needed one)

None of you have the right to moan IMO.

Shit did I just praise Fana?

Ok I count 6 people owned. Let's see here, cleJs, tjo, avl, Zamma and unknown and especially aA. I'm not even surprised you pull that kind of bullshit because I'm well aware that the average intelligence level in the NS community is painfully low. If you can't stand discussions just shut up and go away instead of vomiting garbage.

lump: I was 100% calm when I wrote all those comments. I was actually spamming irc while writing too. So hi2u2!11

I would disagree about the clan community being more equal, but if you're talking about early 1.04 or pre 1.04 I guess you could be right -- I wouldn't know, I'm not that old school. The later parts of 1.04 and 2.01 were completely dominated by torment, with BM being the only real competitor. The last two ENSL's (before half the clans quit anyway) were actually in my mind fairly unrivaled in clan to clan equality in the top division.

ben: Yes I know I got owned by myself, thanks for pointing that out. It's not the first time I've made a comment that later turned into ridicule and it won't be the last.

tjo: I'm the king of furiously fast typing. Possibly only matched by Rapacious.

too much comments ;(

jp: Mostly agreed, especially on the praising Fana part. PCW results isn't something to go around bragging about, and they certainly don't make you king of ns-town. However, unfortunately for NS official matches are too few and too spread out to be a completely accurate measurement of skill at whichever time. As such, PCW results are a good way to guage general skill when looking at the average of matches and not isolated matches. Sometimes clans will try weird strategies and fail, and sometimes succeed. Most of the time that isn't the case though, as most clans prefer drilling certain strategies over and over because they generally work.

The only really unbiased way of rating a team as "the greatest ever" would be use the approach they do in sports. The team or individual with the most victories, the most titles is generally acclaimed as the greatest ever of the sport in question. If this is the case, Knife is overwhelmingly the winner. I do agree with your way of splitting it up into different categories though, torment is undoubtedly the top mythified team of european NS.

Oh yeah, btw., common misconception: I think lessthanthree were a bad team that only won against knife because of luck.

That's not my opinion. Lessthanthree was a strong team especially near the end when they managed to keep a consistent roster with skilled players, and deserved to win the ENSLS1 finals because they played better than Knife in said match.

I will make explanations (excuses if you must...) for why Knife didn't perform though, and you're free to argue with me if you disagree. Just keep it civil -- this applies to all discussions about whatever. I have no respect for people that are too retarded to argue properly and instead resort to typing with their ass.

(I'm spamming like crazy because I have Internet cravings from only being online a few hours every week and weekend :\ )

How do you type with your ass? Can you show me via webcam Fana?

(I'm spamming useless comments because I have NS cravings from sitting on a shitty laptop, knowing I wont be able to play NS again untill it doesnt matter any longer because it's already dead :\ )

why were we owned? i was merely commenting that you appear to be getting extremely worked up even though noone is really replying to your comments except to say calm down.

Uh I'm not worked up and I'm fairly sure I'm not extremely worked up. Reading between the lines is fine I guess, but trying to read emotions when someone is trying to discuss something over the Internet is generally a treacherous path to take. The fact that you're reading emotions I'm not having proves this. (although you're useless garbage comments to my post did annoy me -- hence the retort).

You, personally, were owned because you suggested I need a paper bag when it is in fact you that need one to clean up your infectuous human waste. I won't comment on the others, but it wasn't intended as an insult to any of you. It was more of an ironical observation. Take it as you will I guess...

Thanks for contributing to the discussion with that paper bag comment by the way, you're doing a great job.

tjo: I don't have a webcam. :<<<<<

I will admit that I'm highly talented in the art of typing with my ass though, and I tend to use it too much even when I don't want to.

there isnt really a discussion though, the majority of people agree with you that knife are the highest achieving clan of all time, my comment merely showed that i felt you making numerous long posts in a row - essentially to yourself - was over the top.

sorry if i mistakenly misread you as being worked up, i guess the hostility and arrogance present in pretty much everything you type can be misleading sometimes.

knife is just a bunch with progamers loO =]

anyway the first line up that started from scratch was the best team
after they just recruited players that were already progamerz so it s easier for em o win by recruiting best players from other teams.
That is my opinion =]

fana: that is why torment are so famed... they stood out that much while the scene was at it's strongest, no other reason really that competes.

Many clans could give them a challenge though, people will tell you differently based on their arrogance but i've heard stories of comm, fwd, elpheer, Fek, kfs :P, not to mention .BM putting up fights against the torment team that dominated so strongly.

This is why i don't think knife are the same level, they dominated and had the all stars but so did torment in a much stronger scene, they level above was clearer for that stage of NS, esp with so much of that TeamEU of then in their line-up you can't say it wasn't all-star.

Knife would come 2nd tho and TN nothing close.

at the end of the day you can decide where to place a clan as top for a number of different reasons, how much better they were than the rest of their contemporaries, how many tournaments they won, how long they managed to stay together, individual player skill levels, level of teamwork etcetc. so really several clans on that list are deserving of the title "best eu team" it just depends which of the factors are most important to you e.g.

knife for success
TN for skill level
bm for duration

personally i'd rank the older teams less because upto a certain point in the history of EUns individual player skill and teamwork has always been improving, especially in abilities such as fading/lerking/sg'ing so it seems logical that the best most recent teams would be considered top, though fana is right of course in that alot of people are swayed by nostalgia, in the same way that certain people claim 1.04 was a superior version of ns to 3.0x

in conclusion: the poll is stupid, all of those teams and a few not mentioned could be argued for being top, though really knife are most deserving

ps: i retract the first part of my previous comment just incase there is going to be a decent 2 sided discussion <3

So you're saying because teams came close the scene was stronger? You know knife lost right...

It's the first game we ever lost against you, if i'm not mistaking? Ironicly it was the finals. Anyways,,

i only started in 2.0 so i barely saw anything of torment.. all i can remember is some HLTV were a bunch of americans were going WHO IS TORMENTS COMMANDO?

the two top teams in my book is KTDM and knife. alot of teams comes close but, i'm judging by their strengh and teamwork.

the thing is b1 that when ensl season and even before it started every pcw we played against you ended as a tie :).

Any torment demos going?

Although I started clanning in 1.04, it was a low-skilled clan that never got involved with the big cajones.

And QFT what avl said about compairing old and new players. It's like if Pele was playing football today. No doubt he'd still be a quality goal scorer, but he wouldn't be "the daddy" like he was in his day- simply because todays opposition are fitter and more technically adept.

i.e. More experience has led to the bar being risen, so to speak.

every pcw? heh.

99th post! fuck yea

Sherpa i believe there is a nice video made by zaiko showing some good frags in the torment - RaB game.

MYTHR1L knifing KJEE ftw. Ul frog :x

yeah i can send it to u. Apart from that i presume zaiko or other members have some demos :x?

omfg b1 ur gay :<<

i was posting the 99th as u posted.. now i just look like some kinda retard that cant count/read :<< least i got the 100th

==L1Nk M3 PLX Z4MM4==

erm i think its on own-age.com jp.

lol I broke the site.

rofl YOU BROKE IT :<

NICE LINK SHERPA GJ!
AND YEAH EVERY PCW b1, nub!

who the hell are Torment ?

i removed it!

NS.NL WAS THE BEST CLAN IN NL AHAHAHAHA!

andy: some skills have improved in NS but there are individuals who will come back from inactivity and still overpower with their skulk or lmg.. these guys were average for the top tier in 1.04, a lot of the core abilities in NS were stronger back then, now sg/fade are clearly better but some of the lerks back then took the fucking piss compared to now and skulks too.

lump, the lerk in 1.0-1.04 and the lerk of today are two VERY different creatures. There's just no comparison. I sincerely doubt that being good at the 1.0 lerk automatically makes you good at the 3.0 one.

Also, you've got a situation where lots of the "top skilled" people in 3.0 joined mid-late 1.04, meaning they of course were mediocre back then, but have had the chance to improve since.

Now, I'm not denying that there are alot of "vets" out there that might become really good again if they got back to ns, but doing comparisons like you just did doesnt make any sense whatsoever. There are just too many confounders.

Zamma: All that movie proves is that people were horrible at fading during 2.0 and that zaiko used to rape it up like mad with his crazy bugged skulk bhop.

Aim, Fading, tactics, shotgunning are a lot stronger now, and have been getting continually stronger since the release of 2.0. Skulking has lost a lot of its variety.

Most top players that come back from 1.04 inactivity can still party, but few of them ever reach top of europe standards again.

I disagree with lump about the scene being at it's strongest during 1.04, but neither he or I can prove it either way so I guess we're at a dead end.

avl:
"the majority of people agree with you that knife are the highest achieving clan of all time"

Yes you're obviously correct seeing as how torment were leading the poll by 8 votes at the time of my posts.

"guess the hostility and arrogance present in pretty much everything you type can be misleading sometimes."

Oh really? You must be correct seeing as how I always try to be nice to everyone (unless you're A. ZiGGy or B. Throwing bullshit comments at me like you're doing right now). Considering I've never said no to anyone asking me for help and I always try to help out the community in the best way I can, I call fucking bullshit on your end.

You know what, I suggest you come talk to me on irc and clear this out. Seriously, lets stop cluttering up this discussion with this crap. You obviously have some sort of weird impression of me as some sort of evil person that likes to fuck around with people, which is completely wrong. Acts of hostility and arrogance from my end, especially in writing, are few and far between. I honestly don't get where you're taking this from. Shit I even used to think you were an ok guy before all this junk.

I guess what lump means is its alot easier to improve yourself in the game as it stands now, it was harder to be a completely untouchable marine back in the games initial stages. And ofcourse the guys who were average in the top tiers before, can play now and appear to be a better marine, since they don't have to aim perfectly to hit the skulks hitbox anymore. I dissagree about them coming back and being the skulks they once were though, with the removal of the ground friction, a skulk doesn't seem quite as agile as it once did.

Its a moot point to compare torment to the knife though, torment were good 2 prequels of NS ago. That said, none of the top clans were really good at the actual game, rather good at abusing the games imbalances.

What? It was way easier to hit a skulk in 1.04. The hitbox looked the same regardless of how the skulk moved, was in the same place and was as large as MrBen's ass.

Seriously, enough with the misinformation.

The skulks were slower in 1.04 and had less hp if I'm not mistaken. They got a boost for 2.0 but still lost importance because of 1 hive fades.

"That said, none of the top clans were really good at the actual game, rather good at abusing the games imbalances."

ahhaha well i guess that would put levitacus as the #1 all-time european team then

loul.

"lump, the lerk in 1.0-1.04 and the lerk of today are two VERY different creatures. There's just no comparison. I sincerely doubt that being good at the 1.0 lerk automatically makes you good at the 3.0 one."

I never said it would, i just said that the lerk was a far harder to control style back then and less people could do it well, the ones who could were about a million times better than the others, such as Birdy Supreme.

About skulking, i didn't say old vets were instantely as good as they were in 1.04, but they are still better than a lot of the higher skilled players from now despite very large periods of inactivity.

I was only stating why knife are not an obvious best as others have stated quite strongly, as you all say, the scene was different and you can't judge these things.

1.04 skulks had a fucked hitbox from my memory and tended to use carrapace, which made them a lot stronger.

actually lower div pronewbies are quite easy to predict because the skill difference is huge

1.04 skulks were weaker. I guess most people have forgotten this, but just after the release of 2.0 people were howling for the blood of the devs due to overpowered skulks (and cheap onos loller),

Also yeah, alien tactics in 1.04 generally revolved around getting DCs as early as possible so you could get carapace and a slight advantage.

9 bullets to kill a skulk in 1.04, hitboxes in 1.04 were the same as 2.0, fov of skulk was changed in 2.0 making it easier to manouvre, hitboxes were fucking big but were offset behind the skulk making it so you have to shoot them in the arse

in 1.04 carapace doubled a skulks hp, in 2.0 it added 40hp

in 2.0 skulks got 20 starting armour instead of 10 like in every other version

9 bullets to kill a skulk in all versions until auto regen was added which made it 10

legs weren't broken fyi im not jas

a.A: If you want to talk about pcw statistics please have a clue before you type. I don't remember the older statistics, but knife played 6 pcws against <3 during the spring season and won 4 of them, including a 4-0 the week after the ensl finals.

mu got hit by an ambulance lol.

my anwsear will be in your type now, after ensl finals <3 played really bad, we had like 2 weeks break or less don't remember exacly... we lost to adept LOL?!(the only thing before finals wich i remember it was everytime we played against knife we tied)
And seriously i don't really care about argguing on the internet with guy like you, it's pointless. DON'T FUCKIN DRAG ME IN TO THIS SHIT, FO!

I honestly don't even know where to start.

hence skulking took more skill to delay jp + hmg's for as long as possible and lmg took a lot to gun down the carrapace skulks. No their wasn't as much bhopping for aliens going around and marines could bhop too, but skulks seemed to think a lot more about how they would be most effective.

ok that was a reply to a few posts up ^

lol at all this... it all matters so much!

4-0 after the finals aye! GJ, you really pulled your shit together in time for the big match. :D

I mean Id post a reply about blind fury or any of the other afore mentioned crap, but I just dont care enough about it. If you guys are so fucking hot stop acting like little children and stfu :/

Fana i was just trying to help sherpa yea?

hed never seen them. Geez lay of the offensive :x

drama killed ns and you all know it. too bad the community turned into this all over, but I guess it couldn't be helped, bad start - bad ending. atleast there are some things that you can still enjoy in ns.

LOL CLAES TOTALLY OWNED FANA, FLYING!

I HOPE YOU DIE IN A HELICOPTER ON THE WAY TO BATTLE FANA, LOL!

Where am I being offensive, Zamma? :| I can't even state my opinion without people thinking I'm angry or something?

imo what killed ns is that everyone keeps folding when they dont win :E

ZiGGY^ dont be like that it just got interesting and besides i need something to read in school tomorrow or i'll be bored to death

Don't talk about boredom, you know nothing about boredom until you've been in the norwegian army. :\

The Swedish army qualifies I think. At least if you do what I did.

masterbate?

The people in the ns scene doesn't recieve the approciation or compliment they should have. For example, people that try to help the community is just taken for granted. If someone gets killed everyone goes ''NUBDOWN'' or he goes ''FUCKINGNUB KILLED ME'', that's one of the parts I'm talking about that's been around for a long time. I think I've only seen about one player that has told someone during or after the game that he made a nice shot instead of abusing eachother. Also the constant own you comments, like on this post, are just meh. I'm totally sick of it by now, the hostility in this scene, but yeh not much to do about other than pointing it out. so..

That's why I hope some new game comes around soon with a fresh SCENE start, NS:S (lol yeh right), so I can just leave this game already :b. I know that morons will always be around, but atleast it can be different. If not, then I guess we're all stuck in this abandoned game forever ;[ / atleast i got chicken

Are you naive? Do you think this behaviour exists only amongest NS players? More like it's amongest the online gaming scene as a hole.

Die, scene of 1 or 2 clans, die!

Side note: Torment ftw!

Ofcouse I'm not, but the fact is NS is drowning in it, maybe you just can't see it, but try playing some other game and get into that community and you'll find out what i'm talking about.

We dont have a large enough community to get fanboys b1, that's the problem.

See in bigger communities people get their e-penises jerked off by other, less skilled but very interested people.

In NS people have to do it themselves, hence the mess.

Yea that's why I raged out.

So fed up of being in a small community that pretends to hate each other. Total bull shit.

+

Not to say that everyone is a raging 'tard. As a general rule of thumb, the French and Swedes are top blokes. Even some Germans, too!!!

Lets all love each other!

We need a national love day, but we missed Valentines D:

go go spread the love ;)

You're all dicks.

I'd also like to take this moment to congratulate division 4. All matches played. Fantastic job guys!

Praise off benjie.

Wow guys, what an honour!!!

Jimbo start playing GW already you Dirty Northerner :D!

P.S. Div4 FTW, everyone <3 z.FEELTHEPAIN :D:::D::D:D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D:D::DD:D:D::D
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
:D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D xD

Yes Well done to Z!ck.

Even though they lost all their matches they've held strong and still alive. Thats better then most clans. GJ.

Well ive noticed that the cockiest, most offending players are always the UK NS Players. For some reason.

I'm not offending :'(

And Zamma generally we're not offending, we're just misunderstood :D!

You know it Deano, you know it!

But yea, misunderstood is the best term. 3 words:

"Sublime"
"Mr."
and
"Ben"

As for GW- I told Pat yesterday, but I've left the discs back home in the Midlands, and some chav bastard stole the number plates of my car 2 days ago; so I don't want to risk a 2 hour journey with the potential for arrest for the sake of getting owned by some Korean Monks.

Though I hear you guys are kikoopwning the 4v4 matches.

I agree with bobby, even if the community is small, its made up of a lot of complete tits, for the most part. Not saying that any who post on this web page are in the category.

But, the wierd thing is, take one of these guys to another game, and they are nothing like they are on a NS server.

I also agree with zamma.

Nobody actually means it when they say they want someone to die??

If you take it that seriously then go play with ben rofl!

It doesn't matter that they mean it or not, or whether or not its taken seriously.

I have to agree with frost on this point. I'm so tired of people posting offensive/insulting things and then are surprised if anyone doesn't think its funny. Even if it was meant funny.

I say treat people how you want them to treat you, if you're abusive then you shouldn't mind it back, no need to start laying into skill/ability and shit like that though, it's just lame, we should be working together to improve NS, not fucking destroy it.

Sublime when u told me to die i nearly comit suicide :<

OJ :p

Nah it depends there are some cool people in the community. And like irl some pricks. No-one really is that bad. I remember the few weeks i played CS:S. Every other fucking pcw u wud get in a rage with a team and have a fight.

In the end I had to use aA as a polish translator so i cud tell some polish noobs to go die in a ditch.

But yeah NS Community really should like each other more. Were all so close together :<

Jimbo when did you move to liverpool D:? (no offence Ed :D!)

maybe we can all get back to the fact that the ensl needs a new predictor(s)



-peace out

I stand by my penultimate statement even more firmly than I did before.

omg every is such a feking hippy ! xxx

I blame jix for all the rage in the world.

"Are you naive? Do you think this behaviour exists only amongest NS players? More like it's amongest the online gaming scene as a hole."

Not everywhere. I would agree it is like that in the Counter-Strike community (maybe even worse there actually).
I've been following the QuakeWorld community lately (and why the hell shouldnt I, I play the game). And there is no abuse like in NS going on. When youre playing a duel versus another person they often take time afterwards to help you understand what needs to be improven. Also the raw skill it takes to be good in that game is enough to look up to another player.
When playing clangames (4on4) you don't have to wait half an hour to get ready:ed up, and if theyre last one isnt coming they tell you so you can get another prac quickly.

And it's not only the attitude on the servers that's different, there is a huge respect to all members in the community because of what they together manage to build up. Right now there are two QuakeWorld leagues up in europe, EQL (European Quake Leauge) and NQR (Nations Quake Rank). There is also 2 ladders NQR Ladder (4on4) and NQR Ladder (2on2). Plus there is a tournament called "Duelmania" with a Winners/Losers-bracket set up. All of these leagues/tournaments/ladders are active. You would never be able to see that in NS.

What to say about the clan scene as a whole.. It blossoms with activity, and all division (div1-5) play their games. The clans in div1 actually has a hard time competing since theyre all almost on the same skill level and that makes the game incredible enjoying to watch (I saw a demo with b1 last saturday I think he enjoyed it too). You rarley see that in an offical ns game, cause there is almost only one topdogg.
Also, after official games have been played, they get added to the demo database (something ns also miss) at Challenge-TV. So even if you missed to spec a match that night it was played, you can ALWAYS get it afterwards.

Only thing missing right now is the QuakeWorld.nu site, the community site, much like ns.com with its forum, but being administered by the community and not the creators (ID Software). QW.nu was hacked a while ago and got pwned (much like the ns site) but they got volunteers thats working on the code for a new qw site right now and there is a temp forum up for the whole european community. Also you can easily go to any tournaments site to get the latest predictions and links to demos etc.

With all the stuff about the community being said, is the game any good? Well, the net code is so much better than Half-lifes. Believe me when i said i was tried of not being able to hit moving celerity units such as fades and lerks, it's easy to get into the mind state that it should be like that when they move, "unhitable", but if you play quakeworld and have once hit a target that moving really fast you know there is net code that can make reg work even with players moving in fast speed.
Also, if you have a bad ping (as the always controverisal spaniards), you have to live with it. It's not the other player with low pings fault, they don't get to see models where the hitboxes arent, it works good anyway.

There is also a huge dynamic behind the games tp that blends good with peoples indvidual skills.

I must say I'm very pleased with QuakeWorld and it's community. That's probably why I never will come back to NS again, the community is too small and has a wrong perspective of what's important.

Right now I'm playing a fun game and improving, building up our clan's tp to reach higher in the divisions. It's fun and some time hard to keep on playing, but you get something out of it. That wasn't the case in ns, you just keep on playing because you were comfortable with it and got some e-fame without doing much. So playing QW right now and improving the tp reminds me very much of playing in my second ns team Natural Resistance: play, build tp, have fun, become better and move on. That's what I'm going to do with QuakeWorld, no matter what you guys say, NS is long dead in my eyes.

You make it sound like its perfect, which i really doubt it is, zaiko.

ns is long dead in your eyes?
http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_gettingeyetest.hcsp
try that link

Well zaiko it can be accomplished. People just dont help each other. Thats where ns fails.

You make me want to play QW Zaiko >_>

Which game does QW use? Q3Arena? Surely not something before that?

My 2 minute google didn't reveal any answers.

Quake 1

i might sound negative when saying this but..
all sorts of projects have been started to give a lift for the european ns community, the ideas have not been been bad, but they never went from theory to practice..
toor had a project called "NS Nordic" (or was called something similar to that), it was supposed to be an nordic ns community site which later on was going to be a big international site for the european community, that never happened
i was involved in another big european ns community from scratch too, which never happened either because of people slacking down when it came to designing/coding

and we also has this other issue with the ns community. when certain people run some sites, they automaticly get flamed instead of people joining up and help to build up a central point. this might have happened since we haven't had a single good meeting point for european ns players during the years, if we had started one sooner after ns release, maybe the community would have looked a whole lot different.

quakeworld got it's golden years behind it, but is still able to shine bright as an attractive game (not the graphics, but certainly the gameplay) and also the well-comitted community.
the server issue in ns is another thing. qw got good routed servers in every country without any packet loss. danish/german/swedish/finnish/english servers with the best possible routing is out there. in ns you have the well populated yo-clan without any reg and barley any good "closed" clan servers for clan wars.

i can't say the qw community is perfect, but it's close when you overview it as a whole. there are alot of points where the qw community outshines ns, but also there is a whole different game. i'm not saying people who love ns should change game, what i mean is that you should look at the qw community and take after it at the points where it's actually better.

ns is a really good game, but when it comes to competitive play - it sucks to say it - but, i feel like there is nothing left to get there. if people for once should stop whining about and make something to improve it (like when this leauge popped up for an example) the community would have been a whole lot better very long ago.

Q1? Orly?

Hmm... Wouldn't that be a prety buggy engine?

Don't get me wrong- solid, decent netcode (I assume that one of the more "modern" clients such as FuhQuake are used?) but wouldn't it contain a lot of exploits? i.e. Wouldn't everyone be bunnyhopping? And I doubt it has an NS equivalent of mp_blockscripts.

...But on the plus side, even *I* would get a constant 99fps in that game; and I imagine the age of the engine means that you don't get many whiney 16yr old kids playing it.

...But on the negative side, I guess that there's no skill needed other than uber quick reactions; I can also see it being a bit of a niche- so wouldn't the skill gap would be even larger than NS's?

really fast dm games are fun

nuclear dawn (hl2 mod) is basically ns but with no aliens, toor and tane are both on the dev team for that game as lead testers or something

tark not tane and for all i know tane and toor are the same guy

I thought tane was finish and toor swedish...

jp:
I think it could be argued that the quirks of the Q engine allowing for bhopping was the biggest thing in gaming ever. I mean, the game is still played after so many years, and I doubt it is DESPITE the bug.

lol toor, he was an ass <3

Yea, I can see that, tjosan. The quirks in the HL engine does make for some fun NS aspects- such as the bhop, wiggle walk and strafe run.

Okay moving back from Quake to ENSL- how about killing season 3, taking a break for a month, then starting season 4 with larger, fewer leagues? (i.e. 2 leagues of 10 teams, not 5 leagues of 4 teams)

Not only is small leagues a bad idea because one dead team kills the league; but it's shite that you don't get involved with 90% of the other clans because they have better/worse players than you. IMO.

dont kill the league ... naab

Killing the league, even though it is flawed and appears inactive, would be disasterous.

This league is the single last thing that holds the scene together. It needs to continue.

I agree about the larger and fewer divisions, but that's a change that needs to be prepared during season and announced at the start of next season.

A longer break killed GO, I cant see why it wouldnt kill this league

GO died to unfinished promises :(

The speed at which clans drop out is pretty consistent for any division size, it tends to hold the same % of drop outs for divisions every time.

Larger divisions means longer leagues unless you encourage an unbalanced system.

Read the posts on the forum lump, my thoughts are explained in some detail in that thread >_>

jp^: you need alot of skill in qw. it's alot of tactics involved to win a game etc.

cleJs: learn to fly!!!

tjosan: It's not as if we'd stop games being played if we killed the season- the last Prem game was over a week ago; the one before that 3 weeks ago; and favourites knife haven't played for almost a month.

We still have games going on in the lower divisions...

anyway, I just dont see the point in stopping the league, there's no advantages what so ever that I can see

if you dont want clans to die and drop out then make them with your friends B)

i agree with tjosan on the points stated in his posts here
and what i recall from go (which in the start was a big upswing for the eu ns community since almost everyone played there games) was that there were too big divisions, too many games to be played

keep the divisions small (no clan enjoys getting their ass kicked every game), let people play their games when they want to but have matches set for a week so it's a pointer to when you should play your game. in the current qw leauge im playing in, you can play your leauge game whenever you feel like, and you have one catchup week in the end of the season before playoffs begin. if the games arent played by then, the teams can ask for a wo from the clan who didnt want to play you with irc logs as evidence.
this although, requires a whole lot of admining, and if noone is ready to do that (like we seen alot of before in the ns community) it will stand still.
you also need to consider if it's right to have a one map set for every week or if the teams gets to decide one map for each team. this is what the crew has to decide.

i don't want to bring qw up again, but i do however need to answer your earlier statement about it being a buggy engine..
1) yes, everyone bunnyhops once in a while, but you walk silently so bhopping is not always the solution. however it works as the same way for skulks, transport your self fast over the map or get yourself fast into a fight to be hard to hit
2) there is a ruleset called "smackdown", which includes some blocks for the client (not be able to autoreport when you pick an item up for example) and also a norjscript block so you cant do perfect rocket jumping with scripting. everything else is open, you can have whatever textures or models you like (except for some, like the shaft lightning and having a modified eyes model). this means you can customize you're client to whatever you want.. this thread includes alot of screenshots from different peoples setup: http://nqr.esports-zone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53 (almost noone use the same setup), i don't think ns is the same case though, but it works in qw because of how the game is
3) max fps is actually 77 because of blocking a bug in the physics engine where you're able to rocketjump higher with more fps. but yeah, you get a solid fps and it's good for the gameplay.
4) alot of skill is needed. it's a completley between the game modes though (1on1, 2on2, 4on4 or ffa), won't go more into that. can explain further in irc if someone want me too ;)

Interesting... some nice custom stuff there (I especially like the guy with the whitewall texture! =D )

I might be tempted to give it a go (Isn't Q1 shareware now?) but I've said it so many times- my b4d a55 5ki11s are based on movement and smart decisions, not good reflexes; so I can see myself getting totally spanked if I pick up a game like this.

Only one way to find out, I guess... I was alright in the original UT game, and that had some 9,999mph moments.

P.S. How popular is it, relative to NS?

its alright sherpa you can play against me i should be equally bad :>

Screw you noob! You'd walk over me in a game like that!

Put me up against dedicated NS commanders- that's a battle I could win! (HI TOM.BE AND TOM.UK).

And I really don't think that keeping small leagues is the way to go. How many teams survived the end of s2 in the Premiership? Storm, levi and Insane? I know many lower league divisions lost teams, too.

I also think the skill gap between the top and bottom is starting to shrink now, so it wouldn't be totally pointless merging 2 divisions.

maybe we can make it like the hockey tournament in the olympics :0

and choose your opponent when trying out the game, jp^, so you dont go up againt someone who have played for 10 years or something, cause he'd be all lol flying on your ass.

cleJs what was the name of the "lol flying" guy? I forgot? D:

"Tron 2.0" or something?!

---

Yea challenges sounds good. Would need some thought so it'd be worthwhile for a lower skilled clan to play a higher skilled clan, though.

Just make an omega and a delta division, it'll be fine... eeryone dont need to play everyone. Then finish it off with a playoffs so any inequalities in matchups can be sorted.

hey challenges dont work because people are lazy and probably dont care enough :)

200

Enemy down league (omfg counterstrike, ban me please) had a challenge system..it worked well but hey that community was huage.

We could try a challenge system, but it'd mean a complete overhaul of this site, and seeing as the divisions page STILL hasnt been updated...:| 2 ladders would work pretty well i think, the difference between div 1 and prem isnt so huge anymore imo, throw a few wild cards in there then stick the rest in a lower league and see how it pans out, could work really well.

A callange system wont work, I think. It would simply be something akin to a ladder, on which I have written in that thread on the forums (if you're interested in a read).

Maybe divisions with 8 teams would be good. It's not a huge change and will help to solve inactivity issues (where a clan/clans drops out entirely leaving 3 clans left to play eachother). It's important, though, for the clans to play their matches so that weeks don't over run but the league-team can't really do anything about that, it's the clans responsibility. Larger divisions will also provide a more accurate representation of the clan's skill as forfeits, fluke wins and so on have less of an impact. A forfeit win a division with three clans is a little silly, no? As jp said, the skill gap is becoming smaller so it might work quite well.

Also, has their been any progress towards a ladder system running along side the league? It can't hurt, surely, as if it flops, it doesn't affect anyone but that clan. Competitive matches are so few and far between and it would be nice to have a regular opportunity to play under those conditions with other clans of the similar skill. Little maintenance is required my admins, excluding the inital setting up of the league of course. It might even prevent clans being put into the totally wrong division, which i'm sure is no fun at all.

setting up of the ladder*

I'd be willing to help organising a short tournament, if anyone with greater experience is interested to take the lead...

jp^: i dont remember :x it was something with 2.0 though, ye.

tjosan: Go find Frost- I think he'd be willing to help.

P.S. 1 match from the Premiership, and 1 match from Division 1 have been played since this topic started 2 weeks and 207 posts ago. And there's people here who want to keep the system the same \o\

Wow finally people who agree with me, after three seasons of constant arguing from my side for a change to larger divisions. Sure took you long enough.

zaiko: no matter what you say, deathmatch is still boring. :[

Deathmatch has its moments. When you want to blow off some steam and you can't be arsed with "press your number four key to select your welder then attack me" then nothing beats a quick UT2k4 DM game.

I would question the longevity of it as my mainstay game, though.

But in my old age I'm starting to move away from games like these (pssst www.galciv2.com)

why not try a system like the nations cup had? For example 1 team plays 2 matches in 1 week. Saturday and Sunday. Just set 2 maps for that week, so you dont need to practice 4 maps.

example week1,
knife plays levitacus on veil/tanith saturday 19cet
knife plays isane on veil/tanith sunday 21cet

week 2 origin/eclipse or whatever. that would shorten the league time and maybe you can play two instead of 1 in the same time and clans wouldnt have time to go and die. Just an idea, elaborate if u will.

Bobbi that's almost exactly what I would like to see happen, only area of change is match nights. NS !> Saturday Night for many many people.

not all teams can get 6 people on weekdays

Thats why I intend to give it some flexibility and allow for the majority to get what is best.

I'm sorry, but: *crash and burn* is my prediction to opt 2.

I'd like to see me proven wrong in case you do chose 2, but it'd be a mistake.

Option 2 wouldn't a European NS holocaust, but I doubt it would improve things much.

What I meant with keeping divisions small is that you won't have more than 8-10 teams in a division, I forgot this leauge had such a small clan count in their divisions ;) EQL (european quake leauge) used big divisions in their first season and you had 2 matches a week except for like one week. That setup put alot of pressure on both scheduling and having the time to practice before the game, so I wouldn't recommend 2 matches a week (but it dependes if it's only one map or two too).
EQL S02 can be found at http://qw.fragzone.com/eql/ - also anwers jp's question about the size of the community. Check the amount of clans in each division.

Other tournaments/Ladders:
NQR S09 - http://nqr-network.com/nqr9/ (coming up, 63 signups)
NQR Ladder 4on4 - http://ladder.nqr-network.com/4on4/
NQR Ladder 2on2 - http://ladder.nqr-network.com/2on2/
Duelmania 1on1 - http://www.duelmania.net/?sid=1

Fana: you have never tried organized team deatmatch in quakeworld with powerups on and weaponstay off so please don't comment things you don't know anything about. it's like saying there is no tp in ns because you have played some gathers and came to that conclusion.

Yes, beacause organized team deathmatch is a very difficult concept to understand.

Basically I don't like deathmatch games the same way I don't like CS. They're just not fun. People are different ok?

basically i dont like fana, cause hes different