I have been tip-toeing around the issue in terms of gameplay for quite long and I've come to conclusion that atleast personally I find 200FPS fun. The fast acceleration is more fun, just like fast NS1 skulk is more fun than its NS2 counterpart (atleast for now). It has added a skill that players like aA have mastered.
Hell, I'd rather have 200FPS jetpacks and CaraCeleFocusFades with 2 hives than normal jetpacks.
The actual problem is the balance. Increasing the cost could do the trick but another issue that 200FPS Jetpack is too strong against SC whereas its just okay against DC. Maybe we should bring back hive armor like Peach said and nerf DC for fades.
I don't think 200FPS jetpack is unbalanced against DCs. Maybe it makes a bit boring stalemate games but DC fades can win against Jetpacks.
Besides I don't like the idea of limiting on the client side. 200FPS DPS is the intended DPS.
First of all, 200FPS decreases tearing and enables the intended DPS for other weapons. Only the Jetpack is a problem. Limiting FPS fixes the problem and then it creates new problems.
Lookin at historical perspective. Somehow 200FPS feels like bunnyhop, when it was discovered, people were crying "noo its an exploit!" but then it wasn't, it was a skill.
Heavies should be buffed, agreed with vartija. Decrease cost to research to 30, and unit price to 10.
Sounds fun. So is anyone actually going to mod such balances in? Why isn't 200fps banned in the mean time?
possibility to win != balanced
If marines get JP in anything other than an incredibly weak position, then they tend to win.
What does DPS mean? Surely the game wasn't designed for 200fps when no one was able to achieve such perfomance until recently. What exactly are these other problems that limiting fps creates? Why are they a problem for gathers and not for official matches?
Yeah but NS saw numerous game updates subsequent to the discovery and conservation of bunnyhop. Pointing out that having an amphetamine jetpack is fun and that it heightens the skill ceiling for anime watching polish retards with no friends is one thing, but if you don't actually implement mods (such as those suggested above) that redress the balance, then such bonuses seem redundant; the game remains unbalanced.
but don't try to argue with anyone who supports 200fps.
I'll give you a quick run down of what will happen.
- you make an argument.
- pro 200fps people make a counter argument along with a personal attack.
- if you make a counter personal attack, they'll all criticize you for making a personal attack.
- if you address their argument, they'll say your skill level isn't high enough for a valid argument.
- your initial argument gets ignored completely.
I have used 200fps last 6 month or so in public and gathers, and I have to say it's totally overpowered. Not only as jp but as standard lmg marine as well. It gives you extra few bullets to shoot skulks before they reach you, which is a huge thing. In short, 200fps gives certain players overpowered advantage, which hasn't anything to do with skill.
But because gathers are gathers, I don't really mind. It's not like I'm playing gathers seriously. But in tournaments, when people take it seriously, ENSL should definitely reward most skilled players, not those who have good computers.
It has do with skill. 200FPS does not make you aA automatically. I spectate players and there's a straight difference between him and other Jetpacks. 200FPS is the celerity for Jetpacks. Like I said, I'd rather have CaraCeleFocus fades against 200FPS Jetpacks than 120FPS Jetpacks and SCMC/DCMC fades. Fades like Multivac can kill aA with all upgrades, there's no doubt about it. Fade at the same level of the Jetpack should be able to land 2 Focus hits with CaraCele focus, don't you agree?
Like I said, I like the fact you can bizarre movements on Jetpack you couldn't do before. Like frG said before to me, the Jetpack feels like handicapped without it. And I'm not talking about the balance (which should be fixed), I'm talking about the movement.
As far as the DPS goes. It is actually the intended DPS. The aliens already win most games, so its not "over-powered". I just did a quick check from logs, the win ratios were (999/2205), confirming my doubts. Thats 999 marine wins and 2205 alien wins, marines have ~30% win ratio. And probably 80-90% of those rounds are veil. You may argue that "well its just bad comms, if every comm was Peach then..." (and honestly do you think the numbers were *massively* different with only high-skilled games? I'd still bet alien rounds would dominate). You cannot balance the game on hypothetical players, you have to balance it with what you got.
Besides veil is "marine-biased" map. Part of the reason I don't like to play other maps than veil in gathers is that even if comms know the map, aliens win even more than then they do on veil.
I don't actually have so much problem aliens winning 70% of rounds, and there are certainly other, more equal ways to do that but I still wouldn't say it breaks up the balance in our gathers. I don't know about public, I don't play that really, but thats not our problem really, we cannot change that. Don't use 200FPS on public Tane if it breaks their games. ;)
But as far tournament games go, I agree, it is probably better if it is prohibited for balance and equality reasons. Atleast until we got a better solution.
I just might. Increasing the Jetpack cost should be fairly simple. Although I probably cannot change the HUD.
No, it doesn't make anyone better jp, it only makes easier to be good jp.
Godon for example was much better jp than anyone is now, that was before people could reach 200fps.
Do you have something like a demo of him to back this up? Somehow I have feeling that there's same kind of nostalgia that 1.0 skill level was better than afterwards in ~3.0b5. So many people thought that but it wasn't the case.
And everything else in your post is a poor attempt to put words in my mouth. I didn't talk about the general balance of game, but balance between a player who can reach 200fps and a player who can't.
A good 30% of the gathers I've played, people f4 before the round ends or just piss about resulting in an technically an alien win when in-fact the marines won and everyone went to join the next gather.
Do you have statistics for official matches?
It would be interesting to see the alien to marine win ratios changing over seasons.
It makes better jetpacks on absolute level, otherwise there wasn't a problem. But what you say is true too, it makes easier to be a better jetpack.
However that is not the reason I like it. The reason I like it, is because you can do bizarre movement you couldn't do before. You cannot do it without 200FPS, godon or not.
You cannot be a 3.1 phil without 3.1 flight model, end of debate. Too bad it fucked up the hitboxes but that's a seperate issue.
Do you have something like a demo of him to back this up? Somehow I have feeling that there's same kind of nostalgia that 1.0 skill level was better than afterwards in ~3.0b5. So many people thought that but it wasn't the case.
What I learn from economics is that human action reveals true preferences. As soon people have something like money at stake, there's a sharp increase in rationality.
I didn't deny this but when you say it is overpowered it is ambigious. I misunderstood what you said.
There's certainly a difference between 200FPS and 120FPS, as there is a difference to play with 40FPS compared 111FPS. I mean at the end of the day, I'm sure you would play with 120FPS marine against 200FPS marines rather than 40FPS marine against 111FPS marines. I mean sure its easy to say the contrary on forums, but when the push came to do that in an official, would you do it? Of course more people can reach 20FPS than 200FPS, but we could go some years back not everyone could have stable FPS over 40.
But I do not deny the equality argument. I think this game should be about skill not hardware. I wish everyone could reach 200FPS or we could have the DPS/Jetpack movement with any FPS. Also I agree that ENSL tournaments shouldn't allow 200FPS until it is atleast balanced.
This happens but in my opinion 30% is WAY overstated. I could probably find a way to check this. Wanna bet money on this? What I learnt from economics is that people talk bullshit but when its their money on the line, the bullshit walks. And I don't see how marines would F4 more than aliens, on the contrary, it seems to be the opposite.
We had this argument ... we had a poll it said to cap fps ... Noone will ever do any mod for a DEAD game !
So what the hell how bored are you ppl? Just ledt it go .. if the guys without any balls want to use 200 fps ..let em use it and laugh about them maybe get a beer everytime you get owned by fps and not by skill .. makes NS way more fun !
But hey since you are all bored i ll make a poll if ppl want to lock fps in gathers too !
The funny part about that is that jiriki will have to write some kind of plugin to enforce it XDDD so even more giggles for me woohoo !
btw. i did not read this thread cause i know you guys would just make me sad XD !
This is one sided anyway because jiri likes 200fps so he doesnt give a shit what you think about it , if he likes it then it stays simple as he said it in his previous post.
What do you mean I don't give a shit? I started the actual 200FPS topic orginally and helped to modify the plugin to enforce it.
There was a poll and then it was banned. Besides I don't even run the show. If Danny and other admins want to enable fps limit in gathers, I am not going to stop them.
But yeah I don't see the big problem in gathers. Aliens should learn to end it before the damn jetpacks, the damn creatures win most of the time anyway.
wow if someone cant reach 200 fps yet tane then he should finally buy a new machine... i'm sitting on 3 years old computer now and i can easly reach that wtf
+ acceleration speed - makes it harder for fades to hit jetpacks. It also allows jetpacks to HUNT fades, wich isnt possible with 111/125fps where fades can actually attack and get away with it.
+ amount of fuel - jetpacks can hunt fades way longer than normally. Combined with the much improved acceleration, a jetpack can follow a fade through several corners without losing track of the fade. This is absolutly impossible to do with e.g. 111fps against any decent blinking fade.
+ firerate - HMGs get devestating dmg/sec ratios especially combined with w3/catpacks. Basicly this is the same as creating a new weapons upgrade and calling it w4, while not giving a fourth DC spec to aliens to balance it out.
Skill or not, there is no denying that 200fps radically changes the balance of the game and changes what jetpacks are in terms of unit compleatly.
Jiriki, how do you figure 200fps gives intented DPS? I find that ridiculous, the game is not intended to be played in developer mode. The intended firerates are the ones you get with 100fps, wich is max in HL1 based games in non-dev mode.
well aA I bought an new Comp 2 years ago. Dual core and stuff ( 512mb ATI GPU , 3 gigs of ram and 3.0 Dual core cpu :/ ) . I have stable 125 most of the times ( not while commanding though :( ). But having 200 FPS stable ( especially on gayble) is quite hard for me. I think you have too be lucky having the right specs to have a perfect performance for ns ( half-life). I guess I was unlucky so far :(.
