I was surprised when i saw Tane's screenshot of the ENSL Semi Finals, and i doubt he changed his settings for the final. After contacting jiriki about this issue with gl_picmip (which is actually bound to a standard value in big leagues like the ESL) and getting an answer like "everything is fine with this", Multivac and me were thinking about improvements for our Walls. The result is amazing! The target is pure failure for competitive gaming and is set by the ENSL staff itself. I am very sad about this situation but i won't accept people using almost whitewalls and others don't do so because they think it would be unfair. I really thought tane is one of the "others" unfortunately I rated him wrong.

Here is the Result:
http://img138.yfrog.com/img138/7926/12312.jpg

NOTE this is no cheat! This is just made by settings!!!

And the best is, that I can switch it on the fly by just pressing a button (INGAME BINDING):
http://img29.yfrog.com/img29/2856/asdfadsfs.jpg

With this thread I ask the community to fight this kind of abuse. This has nothing to do with competitve gaming. Watch the screenshots. You really have to admit that there are worse whitewall cheats than the result we gained by just changing settings.

Therefore, if you agree with my opinion you should write it down HERE, copy paste my post and send it to "
"jiriki (at) derbian.fi".

Thank you for reading and being intrested in fairplay.

did you just say "thank you" and "fairplay" mp? i guess santa brought you to much baileys.

to the picture, it gives CORNERED a whole new meaning.

Lul I disagree with you, it is cheat regardless of how its done. As for picmip its different story

oh so you think picmip is a different story?
Its just like if tane can do so, why we cant do better? ;)
This is just created by settings!!!

btw TrC L2P!

So what are u saying, that Tane is using these clear-walls on the fly? Can you see the values he used from the server log or did the screenshots capture it?

does it matter if you use them on the fly or not? For me it actually doesnt. I mean i can rejoin after the rine round with my usual settings and just use them for marine because as alien i got the alien flashlite and its a bit strange because you dont notice movements that good... everything looks same ...

the screenshot captured it qin!

as i suggested to jiriki the discussion about the problem should be after season since we decided to not change any rules during it (last season drama). In my opinion the effect which tane is using should be forbidden, as all attempts towards whitewalls.

Please don't bother Jiriki with this. He handles the website and doesn't like interfering with the rule regulations and such. The head admins and referees will handle the rule interpretations in general. I'm certain Jiriki can still get his thoughts heard if he wants to, but it's his business whether he wants to participate in this discussion.

As in general, I thought configs like that were common knowledge. I think I could create one right off the bat if I wanted to experiment with it. I wouldn't really mind if ENSL set some guidelines to the game tweaking limits though, we'll see if the possible next season has some added rules. I wouldn't expect any huge changes at this point of the game's lifeline though, as developing a foolproof config ruleset probably takes more than a season or two.

On NS2 I'd like to get a clear start with some good guidelines right away, as it makes the game much more approachable for the new players.

Note that this is my personal viewpoint and I haven't had any discussion with anyone making decisions in the ENSL, so don't make any conclusion on the ENSL stance on this one.

Well here's something I picked up from the internet, I didnt even know of this command.

gl_picmip makes textures more smooth, you'll also gain more FPS in the game, which is really good if you're low at FPS. Also quite great to play with gl_picmip with low-performance computers, goes more clean and smooth

....

Someone said: "This is no kind of cheat, never it will be. This command has always been used. It was quite used even in Quake1 while that still was popular."

....

I don't think my aim would improve a lot by abusing this command to the max, nor for using whitewalls for that matter. I might detect hostile life-forms around me and further away a bit faster though, with no background grapchis interfering with my eyes, which kinda goes against the intended nature of aliens hiding in the dark surroundings and sneaking up on their enemies. I can't tell from the posted picture just how much it helps marines in darker areas. Probably not that much? I guess following movements could be easier at times with smoothed background, but I haven't experienced with it.

You cant do better since you'll get caught if screenshots are asked :<

If you wanna pcw with ww's go ahead nobody cares its not like you could play anyway.

TrC i dont want to guess but your brain is probably too small to understand that i didnt do anything what is forbidden in anyway in the ENSL so why should I be caught?

I ever said that I would like to play pcws with this? Also here you don't get the reason why I posted this. I want to fight this abuse nothing else.

And i never said I could play. I just said that you can't ;)

mp can u tell the settings u used to create ur screen? Just wanna test if it really works.

I didn't get how it works.

I can't consider it as a hack, but i'm definitely against it.

It's pretty lame, imho -.-

I never said "everything is fine with this". Its a border case issue. What I said is that if you bad brought up this, say on friday, we could have had the poll and the discussion done and maybe have a new rule with a website announcement before the finals.

You brought up the issue about 5mins before the match time, and you expect me to bring up a CVAR rule to block gl_picmip in that time without thinking too much about it. After the discussion in IRC you should realize this is no "easy" issue.

This is a complicated issue because you can achieve the same effect from GFX settings. If I had banned gl_picmip for the finals, and someone had done the same with LOD settings, should I ban them aswell? There's a difference between gl_picmip (my link), and your LOD (your link).

As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), you did play by the rules in the semis, but showed bad sportsmanship (didn't replay when they did for you, recruited Yka 5mins before the match even when opponent didn't accept him as a merc, few seconds until the forfeit timer end etc).

Also I'll try to get the Hivefish screenshot uploader to work aswell. Its a bit complicated now but it can be done. We could enforce screenshots to be uploade after 1 hour of the match.

And there's no need to ask anyone to email me. This forum is for the discussion. Besides, I only took care of the issue because Danny wasn't around.

There's a poll on the webpage btw. Vote there if you want this banned:
http://extra.ensl.org/picmip.jpg

What you have in your pics is clear whitewalls. However the level where lower LOD turns into whitewalls is a line in the water.

I suggest, that for future seasons, NS1 and NS2, we'll organize a jury of non-involved clan leaders and ENSL Staff to analyze whether a screenshot is a cheat or not. How does this sound to you?

You morons! How the fuck can you say this isn't cheating.

It is DEFINITELY easier to aim with these settings, qin must be a complete goon if he's still bad using whitewalls like that.

And you cannot compare NS to Quake. Quake does not rely on ambushing to the extent that NS does and it is far more fast paced so the focus is on reactions and aim rather than teamwork.

If you enjoy this sort of gameplay why don't you go to Warsow or shitty gungame CSS servers...

Sounds complicated, if its going to be something between mip 0-3 I recommend clear examples what it can be and what it cant be.

Yeah I agree with TrC, we should try out different settings and make screenshots of what is allowed and what is not.

TBH, I think it should just be banned fullstop, but Im a purist. My main issue is that some players can't see the logic that if gl_max_size and other commands had been banned to stop similar effects then why would picmip be legal?

Also, I think we should use the ensl screenshot plugin to use. Maybe setting some pictures as standards would be a good idea and anyone who doesnt follow can get punished. I feel that clutter is important in NS where as in Quake it's not, so I don't think the "well this game uses it" argument to be a valid one. Quake is a head on game where you need mapcontrol and constant movement to win, it's not a enviromental based awareness game so much. In NS as skulk you use different areas and the map to gain an advantage over your enemy, however small it is. In quake the textures don't affect the game in anyway as you never are ambushing or trying to sneak on your opponent; you're a big man-like player model with a big freaking gun clear on all textures, not a small slender infested coloured gaylien.

giving some sample pics of what is allowed and what not sounds as a good idea.

on jiriki´s screenshot I recognize that I used some settings like that for myself. Due to fps problems on my old computer I jused some settings I found for better performance. But except of a tiny bit of fps_improvement I didnt feel like having a better view , since all the sprites and stuff just got messed up. Like already mentioned tane seems to solve that problem somehow...

If your computer is that bad that you need to use mip to sort out your FPS you have bigger problems...

Thank you jiriki for replying!
I understand your situation but you also have to understand the panic I get if I see shit like this.

You are calling the semi finals? Don't talk to me. I've left U GO?! because of the idiots who were in there who just push on this unfair style of playing (Jimmis, doogie("Fuck them we dont replay we are dicks") ). Whatever you cant refer to me in these cases i am not a leader or anything else.

You should do a ENSL pack as the nL pack which includes some possible configurations and a ENSL.cfg which have to be execed. Driver influenced changes should be forbidden.

what do i have to do with your regular whining mp? leave us fucking alone.

elvisq depending on the game and on gaining advantage by those low detailed textures a player gets an atleast 3 months ban, and matches he played are suspended and forfeited as for those that got caught using it ex. tane should be banned straight after semi finals and 9L should be in finals instead, that how it works in leagues that their admins know their own rules bound to league, but ensl is a really strange creature on this case.
althought if there isn't a rule in league that forbidens those settings then you should add it, and let it be obeyed with the next season or just from now on, problem solved.
on the other hand i'm laso shocked that not even one admin checked the screenshots, not even one...

jiriki:
I never said "everything is fine with this". Its a border case issue. What I said is that if you bad brought up this, say on friday, we could have had the poll and the discussion done and maybe have a new rule with a website announcement before the finals
You brought up the issue about 5mins before the match time, and you expect me to bring up a CVAR rule to block gl_picmip in that time without thinking too much about it. After the discussion in IRC you should realize this is no "easy" issue.

we shouldnt be the ones that brought it up in the 1st place, it should be you or other admin, these are your tasks as admins, if you receive screenshots you check them if they are clear... be resposible, dont try make us resposible for this problem since it's you who fucked up. you had almost a week to check this out.


jiriki:
As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), you did play by the rules in the semis, but showed bad sportsmanship (didn't replay when they did for you, recruited Yka 5mins before the match even when opponent didn't accept him as a merc, few seconds until the forfeit timer end etc).

there is no rule that forbidness this, also i dodnt remember that to had something against it. they just started to brawl after match cause they've lost.


jiriki:
I suggest, that for future seasons, NS1 and NS2, we'll organize a jury of non-involved clan leaders and ENSL Staff to analyze whether a screenshot is a cheat or not. How does this sound to you?

just simply add a rule to the league, managing a group of ppl to analyze one screenshots takes way too much time.


sublime:
And you cannot compare NS to Quake. Quake does not rely on ambushing to the extent that NS does and it is far more fast paced so the focus is on reactions and aim rather than teamwork.

you're the man here! ; D

But isn't Tane only mildly using this command in his client? That doesn't seem like totally blurred out(not xiit), the floor railing is still pretty clear too. I wouldn't have raised an issue out of that picture alone.

I tend to agree with Olaf where he says it's your responsibility to check the screenshots, but since this wasn't a rule it would've passed anyway.

Just make sure it gets banned, results are speaking for themselves so far...

Hmmm, it's all subjective. All I do know is that gl_max_size and other commands were banned because of such results. picmip was left in as it was seen as useless because of the sprite bug. mu a few seasons back stated the picmip command and it was tossed aside for this reason and now that there is a work around, I still don't think it should be "legal".

looks kinda bullshit

mp knows too many settings wtf?

tane's a cheating scumbag

1 week aint much to react, i don't even check this shit once every week never mind putting the time in to organise admin meetings and making decisions.. go easy on the admins dudees.. they do this for free remember.

aa... if you think sportsmanship needs to be written and explained in rules.. go find another league, no1 wants you here.

qin, if you think that stuff isn't a massive advantage by making all alien models stand out like a sore thumb.. i think you either need your head examined, you need to take the cocks of saunamen out your mouth or you simply spent too mcuh time in ireland.

I was talking about this screenshot: http://extra.ensl.org/picmip.jpg . I can't tell if that level of tweaking gives u a massive boost in your accuracy or not. I'd have to try it out or see more screens from around the map.

With maximizing the thing to level of abuse, I was making a reference to my personal state of aim which atm is not short of seeing the enemy; just getting to know my mouse a little better.

@ fortune
sure they do this for free. We don't force them to do this job, but if they do it they should know that there is something like critics and aA didnt do anything else. Good criticism is improving the league for all of us.

You also should know that people neither need you me or anyone else in this league so don't say something like 'no1 wants you here' thats just bullshit and shows that you think that you are something better than the others because you are wanted. In fact youre as much wanted as aA Fana or me.


@qin
you are definatly not normal in your head and you are remembering me of TrC thats pretty bad :D probably its the Russian Finnish relation ship...

http://hlds.zanith.nl/images/screenshots/ns_veil0015.bmp

There you go qin.